Posted Sat Jan 5, 2013, 7:11pm Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
You cannot go wrong with either, but you are familiar with Mazzer, you like Mazzer there is no reason not to buy Mazzer. Either Robur or Kony. If you buy anything else, then every little annoyance or difference on new grinder will be rubbing you wrong way and you'll be thinking about how you should have bought Mazzer... So go for it :-)
ECM Senior Member Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 336 Location: Burlington, Ontario Canada Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Giotto Premium + Cantesa... Grinder: Mazzer Robour E Vac Pot: French Press Drip: yes Roaster: Fresh Roast+8, i-roast and...
Posted Sat Jan 5, 2013, 8:32pm Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
Yes.... Mazer Robour does appear to be in my future. I know It's a tad too much too big too everything but it will be my last grinder upgrade i'm sure...................., unless something else comes along. You know how this goes with us coffe geeks!
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 4:17pm Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
I wont talk you out of the Mazzer brand, I for one love their grinders. Ive been using a Major since my first setup, and though I had some different grinders along the way, including a large conical Macap, I ended up back with a Mazzer Major. IMO, there is no better flat burr grinder out there.
But, and this is just my opinion.. I must talk you out of the E-model. The E is really great on the flat burr grinders, but for the same reasons, it suffers on the conicals grinders. In the home setting.
1)The hopper needs to be full of beans to work properly. Not neccesarily "full", but you need beans in the hopper, at the very least like 300grams depending on hopper size.
2)The Big Conicals(Robur and Kony) hold onto a lot of coffee in the burr chamber, and due to the size of the burr chamber relative to the size of the conical lower burr, there is a good amount of room to pack in grounds, and its not always first in-first out, so purging can be very wasteful. In Single-Dose mode, as JonR will tell you, the Robur preform admirably and can be kept nice and clean.
-In a commercial setting, the E-models work well if the specific cafe likes that style of grinder, and the waste is negligable. At home, you'll be wasting more coffee than you want to, and eventually you will end up single dosing anyway, which is actually harder with the E models.
--Check out this Thread for a good read on reducing waste on these big grinders. Page two has pictures of how big the burr chamber is and how much coffee can be left behind, even after purging.
I really truly believe you will be generally unhappy with an E model Robur or Kony. IF you must have an E model, I highly, highly point you towards the Mazzer Major. Ill put my Major up against any Titan Conical and I know I will come out equal, with a nod towards bass notes and less overall seperation, but more body. That said, if a Conical is what you want, then the Robur or Kony ARE great grinders, but the Robur-E and Kony-E are just not suited to home use in really any fashion. If MUST have doserless and you want a Conical, There are other options which provide better overall waste performance, like the Elektra Nino. But I fear, with these grinders, in the home, Single Dosing is the BEST way to get as little waste as possible. Of course, this is my opinion.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
ECM Senior Member Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 336 Location: Burlington, Ontario Canada Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Giotto Premium + Cantesa... Grinder: Mazzer Robour E Vac Pot: French Press Drip: yes Roaster: Fresh Roast+8, i-roast and...
Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 6:30pm Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
Thank you..... you have given me something to think about. I have a mini with docdr and I have come to hate that docer with a pation. The thought of going back to another docer doesn't really seem practical in a home environment either.
I will read over your link and give it some thought. Thanks again for your reply and honesty.
ECM Senior Member Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 336 Location: Burlington, Ontario Canada Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Giotto Premium + Cantesa... Grinder: Mazzer Robour E Vac Pot: French Press Drip: yes Roaster: Fresh Roast+8, i-roast and...
Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 8:04pm Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
My reasons for wanting a Robour E are based on many many hours of research on this form and many others like it. Clearly this grinder has a loyal following based on many of the following characteristics:
very consistent espresso pours – this is of huge benefit for any espresso nut who is serious about his/her art
Much less grinder adjustment with a conical then is typical of a flat bur set
Quick grinding, very quick grinding capability – although this is not a deal breaker
Docerless – chances are I will not be using the timer option on the E as I will be grinding as I need and I have become very skilled at simply eyeballing and dropping in what I need. I would use a docer but they are incredibly messy on the Mazzers as I have come to realize with my mini for the past 9 years.
I have always wanted a large conical grinder and the Robour E fits the bill
Yes I thought about the K10 but it’s only 500.00 cheaper then the Robour E. For the difference in money you get a more powerful motor and a larger bur set – granted the RPM’s on the K10 are a bit slower.
I hate the look of the K10 - Mazzer Robour has an indestructible mammoth beast like quality that touts its seriousness and commitment to its task at hand
I have owned a Maze and in my opinion they remain the top dog in grinders period. Yes they are far from perfect but where it counts they deliver.
I’m sure there are more reasons but at the moment I can’t think of them.
Really for me it comes down to the quality of the grind and the final product in my cup. From all reports this is the most reliable and consistent producing conical grinder on the market, at least according to the threads I’ve read.
I don’t really care that much about wasted coffee or stale grinds. I think there is far too much emphasis placed on these factors. The majority of these ridiculous monster grinders are way too much for the home environment. Let’s face it… they weren’t intended or designed for that purpose. Therefore, we make compromises. “You can waste some coffee or leave behind grinds as long as you keep pumping out those beautifully consistent shots I will always worship you Mazzer God!”
MikeReilly Senior Member Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 277 Location: Vancouver Island Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Cimbali Junior D, Gaggia... Grinder: Mazzer Mini Drip: Cuisinart Roaster: Behmor, I-Roast 2, Popper
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:22am Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
Well, good luck to you with your upgrade. It sounds like you've picked out what you want and frankly, you should be pretty happy with which ever grinder you settle on. I am also in the middle of upgrading from the Mini doser and understand what you are saying about the mess of the doser. For me this isn't a factor, since my wife has banished me to a corner of the laundry room so I just vacuum every week or so to clean up around the grinder and Behmor.
Where I differ from you is that I'd take a K10 in a heart beat. I've seen them in action in local cafes and they are a very solid machine that produce a stellar grind. If a Mazzer does outlast them, I wouldn't think it would be by a large margin. Still, I'm starting to think that conical grinders might not be the be all and end all of espresso. I am starting to prefer the sweet syrupy espressos and a large flat burr grinder might be more what I should be looking for.
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