Zeno Senior Member Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 20 Location: NZ Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco FB 70 Grinder: Mazzer Roaster: Toper 5kg
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 1:07am Subject: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
Hi I have a Mazzer Super Jolly running off a 1000w inverter at a farmers market, it is so busy it keeps overheating and cutting out as we are grinding vertually nonstop for 4 -5 hours . The previous owner took preground coffee done on a deli grinder just before the market started and told me I would never keep up if I used a grinder, but it just goes against the grain to go preground, but after 2 markets and lots of stopping and starting I need to find a solution, either buy another grinder that can keep up or buy a deli grinder. Any advice would be appreciated.
Venia_Coffee Senior Member Joined: 5 Oct 2011 Posts: 11 Location: Seattle, WA Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Izzo Alex II HX Grinder: Mahlkonig Vac Pot: Yama TCA-5D Drip: Sowden Roaster: Taehwan
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 1:23am Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
Hey Zino,
Could you explain what your are grinding for? I am guessing if you are using a Super Jolly you are grinding on demand for an espresso machine setup? If you are not grinding for espresso but for some other brewing method, I would recommend a grinder designed for that purpose. If you are bulk grinding I think you would be best served by buying something like a Bunn G1 (G2 or G3) which does quite nicely across the grind spectrum, quickly changes between grinds, and is much quicker that a Super Jolly.
Zeno Senior Member Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 20 Location: NZ Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco FB 70 Grinder: Mazzer Roaster: Toper 5kg
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 2:20am Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes I am grinding on demand for espresso, I have 2 La Pavoni Revolution lever machines, the problem is we are so busy the grinder is working non stop. So I either need something that can handle grinding that much or pregrind it, I will check out your recommendation. Thanks
Is this issue the grinder, or poor power supply at the market. You may find issue with the source, not the machine itself.....Just a thought. So you may really be looking for something that draws less power.
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 6:20am Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
Duty cycle on a Super Jolly looks to be approx. 50 seconds on, then 50 seconds rest. Working it any harder than that is going to cause overheating problems, especially if you're using it that heavily for 4-5 hours at a stretch.
I'd say figure how many shots you're pulling per hour, on average, then find a grinder that can match that capacity or see if adding a second grinder is a better answer. When in doubt, run the numbers.
On another thought, if you're that busy, you're in exactly the situation a doser was meant for. Sure, it's not ground absolutely fresh for every shot, but if you're emptying out the doser every couple of minutes it's not going to be a huge impact on freshness.
With a 350 watt power draw, your 1000W inverter shouldn't be a bottleneck if the grinder is the only thing running off it. If you're drawing other power, you might consider a separate inverter and battery pack just for the grinder.
Venia_Coffee Senior Member Joined: 5 Oct 2011 Posts: 11 Location: Seattle, WA Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Izzo Alex II HX Grinder: Mahlkonig Vac Pot: Yama TCA-5D Drip: Sowden Roaster: Taehwan
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:11am Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
Zeno Said:
Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes I am grinding on demand for espresso, I have 2 La Pavoni Revolution lever machines, the problem is we are so busy the grinder is working non stop. So I either need something that can handle grinding that much or pregrind it, I will check out your recommendation. Thanks
Zeno Senior Member Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 20 Location: NZ Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco FB 70 Grinder: Mazzer Roaster: Toper 5kg
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 1:09pm Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
Thanks for all your help, if I go down the pregrinding route then I will have to do it off site as I dont really have room for a shop grinder and a doser. I can hear the motor still humming when it stops grinding and the jolly is extremly hot so I suspect power is not an issue and its the auto safety cut out due to overheating. We use a 3 group for pulling shots and the odd jug of milk and another 3 group for steaming milk, I know its a bit of overkill but I bought the setup and they have been using that system for quite a few years and keeping up nicely. We can do 120 drinks per hour although it is usually only 1-2 hrs like that and the other few hours more like 80 an hour. I will do some more reseach and make a decision. Either way I will take lots of preground with me next market even if I buy a new grinder just in case, dont want all the regulars to abandon me! I am pretty sure the inverter is not the problem as it is 1000w and the mazzer is only drawing 350w but I will do some experimenting. Thanks again
faaparasite Senior Member Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 288 Location: Dallas Metroplex Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Bezzera BZ99 Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Technivorm
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 5:14pm Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
Zeno Said:
We can do 120 drinks per hour although it is usually only 1-2 hrs like that and the other few hours more like 80 an hour. I will do some more reseach and make a decision.
I just don't think the SJ was designed for that type of duty cycle. The SJ was (and still is) used predominately as a low volume commercial grinder which is why it's well suited for the serious home enthusiast. I've never seen a shop use a SJ in a high volume environment unless multiple grinders were used for different beans. You may want to give some thought into buying a 2nd SJ which would drop your duty cycle in half, or go with something bigger like the Major.
1 drink every 30 seconds would mean a super jolly would be running near 100% of the time. No good.
Adding a second SJ to the bar might be helpful, but at that pace I think a faster grinder would help eliminate bottlenecks at the bar. Both the Mazzer Kony and Robur would be excellent options and are actively cooled with a fan (not passively like the Super Jolly, and Major doser). The Major Electronic is also actively cooled.
If you are doing 120 an hour the only mazzer grinder I would feel confident in recommending as a stand alone would be a Robur. It would be a big investment, especially if you are only using it a few days a week, but will dose a double shot in under 5 seconds which speeds everything up.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,671 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 7:51am Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
Zeno Said:
Thanks for all your help, if I go down the pregrinding route then I will have to do it off site as I dont really have room for a shop grinder and a doser.
There is a doser built onto the SJ, you don't need to buy anything. This is EXACTLY why there is a doser on the grinder. Let it grind until full, then it will turn off, and let the motor cool. I have not used the doser on the SJ as I do not need the volume but based on the speed of the grinder, it should not take more than a minute or so to fill the doser, any of the SJs I have worked with will grind 18g in about 5 seconds and the doser should hold more than 10 shots of coffee. If you are pulling shots that fast you will NOT have stale coffee.
Zeno Said:
I can hear the motor still humming when it stops grinding and the jolly is extremly hot so I suspect power is not an issue and its the auto safety cut out due to overheating.
The motor should NOT be humming when you stop grinding, I suspect you have more problems than you think, you should never get the grinder hot enough to trip the thermal safety.
Zeno Said:
We use a 3 group for pulling shots and the odd jug of milk and another 3 group for steaming milk, I know its a bit of overkill but I bought the setup and they have been using that system for quite a few years and keeping up nicely. We can do 120 drinks per hour although it is usually only 1-2 hrs like that and the other few hours more like 80 an hour. I will do some more reseach and make a decision. Either way I will take lots of preground with me next market even if I buy a new grinder just in case, dont want all the regulars to abandon me! I am pretty sure the inverter is not the problem as it is 1000w and the mazzer is only drawing 350w but I will do some experimenting. Thanks again
Resistive load and inductive load are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, I suspect you do not have enough power to properly operate the grinder. On motor startup, it is NOT uncommon to have 2 to 4 times the rated current be need to get the motor started, low voltage will cause excessive heat in the motor as it will draw more current to keep performing the same work, motors are different than heaters, like I said, two different things. A heater will just put out less heat with low voltage but the motor will try to perform it's job and will draw more current.
At 120 drinks per hour and a 10 drink doser, the grinder should only be running for about 15 to 20 minutes in that hour, plenty of time to cool down between grinding sessions.
Hey, like always, YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
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