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Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Help choosing...  
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Zeno
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 20
Location: NZ
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Marzocco FB 70
Grinder: Mazzer
Roaster: Toper 5kg
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 1:07am
Subject: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Hi I have a Mazzer Super Jolly running off a 1000w inverter at a farmers market, it is so busy it keeps overheating and cutting out as we are grinding vertually nonstop for 4 -5 hours  .  The previous owner took preground coffee done on a deli grinder just before the market started and told me I would never keep up if I used a grinder, but it just goes against the grain to go preground, but after 2 markets and lots of stopping and starting I need to find a solution, either buy another grinder that can keep up or buy a deli grinder.  Any advice would be appreciated.
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Venia_Coffee
Senior Member
Venia_Coffee
Joined: 5 Oct 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Seattle, WA
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: Izzo Alex II HX
Grinder: Mahlkonig
Vac Pot: Yama TCA-5D
Drip: Sowden
Roaster: Taehwan
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 1:23am
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Hey Zino,

Could you explain what your are grinding for?  I am guessing if you are using a Super Jolly you are grinding on demand for an espresso machine setup?  If you are not grinding for espresso but for some other brewing method, I would recommend a grinder designed for that purpose.  If you are bulk grinding I think you would be best served by buying something like a Bunn G1 (G2 or G3) which does quite nicely across the grind spectrum, quickly changes between grinds, and is much quicker that a Super Jolly.
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Zeno
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 20
Location: NZ
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Marzocco FB 70
Grinder: Mazzer
Roaster: Toper 5kg
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 2:20am
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Hi, thanks for the reply.  Yes I am grinding on demand for espresso, I have 2 La Pavoni Revolution lever machines, the problem is we are so busy the grinder is working non stop.  So I either need something that can handle grinding that much or pregrind it, I will check out your recommendation.  Thanks
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diggi
Senior Member
diggi
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Halifax, NS
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Spaz vivaldi S1 V2
Grinder: B Vario, OE LIDO
Drip: Chemex, Espro Press,...
Roaster: Poppery I
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 3:06am
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Zeno Said:

Hi I have a Mazzer Super Jolly running off a 1000w inverter at a farmers market...

Posted November 18, 2012 link

Is this issue the grinder, or poor power supply at the market.  You may find issue with the source, not the machine itself.....Just a thought.  So you may really be looking for something that draws less power.
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GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 862
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 6:20am
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Duty cycle on a Super Jolly looks to be approx. 50 seconds on, then 50 seconds rest. Working it any harder than that is going to cause overheating problems, especially if you're using it that heavily for 4-5 hours at a stretch.

I'd say figure how many shots you're pulling per hour, on average, then find a grinder that can match that capacity or see if adding a second grinder is a better answer. When in doubt, run the numbers.

On another thought, if you're that busy, you're in exactly the situation a doser was meant for. Sure, it's not ground absolutely fresh for every shot, but if you're emptying out the doser every couple of minutes it's not going to be a huge impact on freshness.

With a 350 watt power draw, your 1000W inverter shouldn't be a bottleneck if the grinder is the only thing running off it. If you're drawing other power, you might consider a separate inverter and battery pack just for the grinder.
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Venia_Coffee
Senior Member
Venia_Coffee
Joined: 5 Oct 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Seattle, WA
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: Izzo Alex II HX
Grinder: Mahlkonig
Vac Pot: Yama TCA-5D
Drip: Sowden
Roaster: Taehwan
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:11am
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Zeno Said:

Hi, thanks for the reply.  Yes I am grinding on demand for espresso, I have 2 La Pavoni Revolution lever machines, the problem is we are so busy the grinder is working non stop.  So I either need something that can handle grinding that much or pregrind it, I will check out your recommendation.  Thanks

Posted November 18, 2012 link

How many individual brew groups are you running then?  Are we talking 2 machines with 2,3,4 groups?  How many pulls are you making an hour total?
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Zeno
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 20
Location: NZ
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Marzocco FB 70
Grinder: Mazzer
Roaster: Toper 5kg
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Thanks for all your help, if I go down the pregrinding route then I will have to do it off site as I dont really have room for a shop grinder and a doser.  I can hear the motor still humming when it stops grinding and the jolly is extremly hot so I suspect power is not an issue and its the auto safety cut out due to overheating.  We use a 3 group for pulling shots and the odd jug of milk and another 3 group for steaming milk, I know its a bit of overkill but I bought the setup and they have been using that system for quite a few years and keeping up nicely. We can do 120 drinks per hour although it is usually only 1-2 hrs like that and the other few hours more like 80 an hour.  I will do some more reseach and make a decision.  Either way I will take lots of preground with me next market even if I buy a new grinder just in case, dont want all the regulars to abandon me!  I am pretty sure the inverter is not the problem as it is 1000w and the mazzer is only drawing 350w but I will do some experimenting.  Thanks again
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faaparasite
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 290
Location: Dallas Metroplex
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ99
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Drip: Technivorm
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 5:14pm
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Zeno Said:

We can do 120 drinks per hour although it is usually only 1-2 hrs like that and the other few hours more like 80 an hour.  I will do some more reseach and make a decision.  

Posted November 18, 2012 link

I just don't think the SJ was designed for that type of duty cycle.  The SJ was (and still is) used predominately as a low volume commercial grinder which is why it's well suited for the serious home enthusiast.  I've never seen a shop use a SJ in a high volume environment unless multiple grinders were used for different beans.  You may want to give some thought into buying a 2nd SJ which would drop your duty cycle in half, or go with something bigger like the Major.
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Venia_Coffee
Senior Member
Venia_Coffee
Joined: 5 Oct 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Seattle, WA
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: Izzo Alex II HX
Grinder: Mahlkonig
Vac Pot: Yama TCA-5D
Drip: Sowden
Roaster: Taehwan
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:01pm
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Zeno Said:

We can do 120 drinks per hour...

Posted November 18, 2012 link

1 drink every 30 seconds would mean a super jolly would be running near 100% of the time.  No good.  

Adding a second SJ to the bar might be helpful, but at that pace I think a faster grinder would help eliminate bottlenecks at the bar.  Both the Mazzer Kony and Robur would be excellent options and are actively cooled with a fan (not passively like the Super Jolly, and Major doser).  The Major Electronic is also actively cooled.  

If you are doing 120 an hour the only mazzer grinder I would feel confident in recommending as a stand alone would be a Robur. It would be a big investment, especially if you are only using it a few days a week, but will dose a double shot in under 5 seconds which speeds everything up.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 7:51am
Subject: Re: Help choosing new grinder for busy mobile setup
 

Zeno Said:

Thanks for all your help, if I go down the pregrinding route then I will have to do it off site as I dont really have room for a shop grinder and a doser.

Posted November 18, 2012 link

There is a doser built onto the SJ, you don't need to buy anything. This is EXACTLY why there is a doser on the grinder. Let it grind until full, then it will turn off, and let the motor cool. I have not used the doser on the SJ as I do not need the volume but based on the speed of the grinder, it should not take more than a minute or so to fill the doser, any of the SJs I have worked with will grind 18g in about 5 seconds and the doser should hold more than 10 shots of coffee. If you are pulling shots that fast you will NOT have stale coffee.

Zeno Said:

I can hear the motor still humming when it stops grinding and the jolly is extremly hot so I suspect power is not an issue and its the auto safety cut out due to overheating.

Posted November 18, 2012 link

The motor should NOT be humming when you stop grinding, I suspect you have more problems than you think, you should never get the grinder hot enough to trip the thermal safety.

Zeno Said:

We use a 3 group for pulling shots and the odd jug of milk and another 3 group for steaming milk, I know its a bit of overkill but I bought the setup and they have been using that system for quite a few years and keeping up nicely. We can do 120 drinks per hour although it is usually only 1-2 hrs like that and the other few hours more like 80 an hour.  I will do some more reseach and make a decision.  Either way I will take lots of preground with me next market even if I buy a new grinder just in case, dont want all the regulars to abandon me!  I am pretty sure the inverter is not the problem as it is 1000w and the mazzer is only drawing 350w but I will do some experimenting.  Thanks again

Posted November 18, 2012 link

Resistive load and inductive load are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, I suspect you do not have enough power to properly operate the grinder. On motor startup, it is NOT uncommon to have 2 to 4 times the rated current be need to get the motor started, low voltage will cause excessive heat in the motor as it will draw more current to keep performing the same work, motors are different than heaters, like I said, two different things. A heater will just put out less heat with low voltage but the motor will try to perform it's job and will draw more current.

At 120 drinks per hour and a 10 drink doser, the grinder should only be running for about 15 to 20 minutes in that hour, plenty of time to cool down between grinding sessions.

Hey, like always, YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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