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Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Can't grind fine...  
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Saraluna
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Joined: 3 Aug 2012
Posts: 12
Location: usa
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 3:04pm
Subject: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

I just bought a baratza preciso (or rather, was given one as a birthday gift :D). I'm having trouble dialing the grind setting fine enough.

With my old blade grinder, I was pulling 20-25 second shots. My shots with the preciso gush out in 5. The grind is too coarse even at the finest setting. Dubious, I tried dialing the macro down while the machine was running (Initially going by coffeegeek's estimates for espresso - macro 10 micro G - for these first shots, though I know the bean makes a difference), like the manual says. It got a bit finer once I got to the turkish settings, but still the shots are short, almost no crema, and the grind seems too coarse.

Is it possible I was grinding too fine with the blade grinder, and I'm doing something else wrong that I'm only now aware of with the preciso? Or am I missing something in terms of dialing the grind settings? It really is pretty coarse :/

I'm also confused, because the booklet says: 1: if you're dialing it finer, the machine must be running 2: if it's on a fine setting, don't run it without beans in the hopper because this'll damage the burrs

but I read someone on a forum saying to make adjustments without beans in the hopper. I've been doing it with, and wasting a lot of espresso in the process.

Any help would be appreciated!
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 3:23pm
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

Where did the grinder come from, a dealer/shop or Baratza?  Is it new?  There is a troubleshooting guide at Baratza.com that specifically addresses this issue so that you can adjust it.  If new, I would not want to do that as it involves taking it apart, case off.  

Call your dealer or Baratza.

Some have come with different adjustments, with the screw in a different window.  You may want to look at the Baratza troubleshooting document to understand the mechanism and be better able to explain and understand.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Sep 12, 2012, 3:56pm
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

I noticed your other recent thread and read it.  Sorry to see you have problems especially since you followed the advice and got the Preciso.  Baratza has great service and probably not care or ask where you got it.  They have a great reputation, and will help you adjust or calibrate.

I have a refurbished unit from them and have have spoken to them a couple of times.  I am guessing that you will need calibration to the next "window" with the internal calibration screw.  Not much to do wrong when turning the hopper and micro to adjust, so it is probably not you.

I run mine out each dose, only put in what I need.  I can blip the empty grinder, and then adjust it down.  I have not been close to turkish, or finest, and have not actually run the burrs while changing the grind, but did it empty as described.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,356
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 10:20am
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

I just bought a baratza preciso (or rather, was given one as a birthday gift :D). I'm having trouble dialing the grind setting fine enough.
congrats on the gift!

With my old blade grinder, I was pulling 20-25 second shots. My shots with the preciso gush out in 5. The grind is too coarse even at the finest setting. Dubious, I tried dialing the macro down while the machine was running (Initially going by coffeegeek's estimates for espresso - macro 10 micro G - for these first shots, though I know the bean makes a difference), like the manual says. It got a bit finer once I got to the turkish settings, but still the shots are short, almost no crema, and the grind seems too coarse.
Call Baratza, but worst case you may have gotten one that was calibrated towards the coarser end. No biggie, if that's the case, just pop it open and adjust it to  fine/neutral with the screw adjustment (instructions on their site or since you just got it they may just swap it out for another one and you can have them adjust it for espresso there). Don't go by other members settings, b/c it completely varies... settings can be different depending on type of beans used, calibrated to different screw position, broken in burrs etc. I'm usually in the 5-6 range for espresso as an example (depends on dose amount, type of bean etc), today was 6E and was a bit too fine on the video shot I linked below. But also it's impossible you were pulling 20-25 second shots with a blade grinder, unless your shots were like 6+ oz ;), a blade grinder just chops the beans up more coarse then coarse settings on a grinder and unevenly as well.

Is it possible I was grinding too fine with the blade grinder, and I'm doing something else wrong that I'm only now aware of with the preciso? Or am I missing something in terms of dialing the grind settings? It really is pretty coarse :/
Again, physically not possible to grind even remotely near fine enough with a blade grinder, blades give you coarse uneven ground beans barely suitable for drip coffee. Its just inherent to their design, reason their so cheap. Can you take a pic of the grinds and post??

I'm also confused, because the booklet says: 1: if you're dialing it finer, the machine must be running 2: if it's on a fine setting, don't run it without beans in the hopper because this'll damage the burrs. but I read someone on a forum saying to make adjustments without beans in the hopper. I've been doing it with, and wasting a lot of espresso in the process.
When dialing the shots I move the Micro arm with beans in it but I also only single dose so generally I'm always within a set range. However if beans are in the hopper and you want to move the Macro you must grind while doing so as that's a bigger movement and you can risk a beans dropping down and jamming possibly. If you want less waste, you could always empty the hopper and click to a different setting or two and try again, as you'll know when your within an "espresso" range and can then adjust the micro from there and see how it works. If you single dose you'll waste way less beans doing so but that's if you have a scale that measures to .1 grams

Any help would be appreciated!
when you say 20-25 second shots with a blade grinder, how much (ounces) are you extracting? Do you have a tamper that correctly fits the basket and leaves no/little gap? How are you prepping and tamping the shots? How much are you dosing into the basket?

example here's a quick shot I made this morning with my Preciso, actually ran a little longer then normal (most of my shots are in the 25-30 second range) b/c just swtiched beans and had it a bit too fine for them. Weighed 15g of beans and extracted about 1.7oz in 33 seconds from 1st drip. I'm normally within 25-30 for between 1.5-2oz depending, so you can see there's just physically no way a blade grinder can do that. Blade would be gushing blonde in seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9OTlCKj1ZQ (may have to click the HD setting as recorded that on my phone, otherwise it's fuzzy)
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Saraluna
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Joined: 3 Aug 2012
Posts: 12
Location: usa
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:38am
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

CMIN Said:

I just bought a baratza preciso (or rather, was given one as a birthday gift :D). I'm having trouble dialing the grind setting fine enough.
congrats on the gift!

With my old blade grinder, I was pulling 20-25 second shots. My shots with the preciso gush out in 5. The grind is too coarse even at the finest setting. Dubious, I tried dialing the macro down while the machine was running (Initially going by coffeegeek's estimates for espresso - macro 10 micro G - for these first shots, though I know the bean makes a difference), like the manual says. It got a bit finer once I got to the turkish settings, but still the shots are short, almost no crema, and the grind seems too coarse.
Call Baratza, but worst case you may have gotten one that was calibrated towards the coarser end. No biggie, if that's the case, just pop it open and adjust it to  fine/neutral with the screw adjustment (instructions on their site or since you just got it they may just swap it out for another one and you can have them adjust it for espresso there). Don't go by other members settings, b/c it completely varies... settings can be different depending on type of beans used, calibrated to different screw position, broken in burrs etc. I'm usually in the 5-6 range for espresso as an example (depends on dose amount, type of bean etc), today was 6E and was a bit too fine on the video shot I linked below. But also it's impossible you were pulling 20-25 second shots with a blade grinder, unless your shots were like 6+ oz ;), a blade grinder just chops the beans up more coarse then coarse settings on a grinder and unevenly as well.

Is it possible I was grinding too fine with the blade grinder, and I'm doing something else wrong that I'm only now aware of with the preciso? Or am I missing something in terms of dialing the grind settings? It really is pretty coarse :/
Again, physically not possible to grind even remotely near fine enough with a blade grinder, blades give you coarse uneven ground beans barely suitable for drip coffee. Its just inherent to their design, reason their so cheap. Can you take a pic of the grinds and post??

I'm also confused, because the booklet says: 1: if you're dialing it finer, the machine must be running 2: if it's on a fine setting, don't run it without beans in the hopper because this'll damage the burrs. but I read someone on a forum saying to make adjustments without beans in the hopper. I've been doing it with, and wasting a lot of espresso in the process.
When dialing the shots I move the Micro arm with beans in it but I also only single dose so generally I'm always within a set range. However if beans are in the hopper and you want to move the Macro you must grind while doing so as that's a bigger movement and you can risk a beans dropping down and jamming possibly. If you want less waste, you could always empty the hopper and click to a different setting or two and try again, as you'll know when your within an "espresso" range and can then adjust the micro from there and see how it works. If you single dose you'll waste way less beans doing so but that's if you have a scale that measures to .1 grams

Any help would be appreciated!
when you say 20-25 second shots with a blade grinder, how much (ounces) are you extracting? Do you have a tamper that correctly fits the basket and leaves no/little gap? How are you prepping and tamping the shots? How much are you dosing into the basket?

example here's a quick shot I made this morning with my Preciso, actually ran a little longer then normal (most of my shots are in the 25-30 second range) b/c just swtiched beans and had it a bit too fine for them. Weighed 15g of beans and extracted about 1.7oz in 33 seconds from 1st drip. I'm normally within 25-30 for between 1.5-2oz depending, so you can see there's just physically no way a blade grinder can do that. Blade would be gushing blonde in seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9OTlCKj1ZQ (may have to click the HD setting as recorded that on my phone, otherwise it's fuzzy)

Posted September 13, 2012 link

Thank you!

I'm kind of flummoxed that you say it's impossible to pull a 20-25 second shot with the blade grinder, because I've been doing that. Perhaps it's the dose. I'm using the Silvia's double basket, and I fill it about 3/4 with unground beans as my measure - I don't have a scale. It's a bit farther down than 3/4 after I tamp. Yes, I have a good tamp that fits my basket perfectly. I tend to eyeball the espresso as it drips for when to turn it off - the ounces I extract vary a bit. Suffice it to say that I could grind much finer with the blade, so I'm heartened to hear I might just have to adjust the calibration. I will look on Baratza's website. Unfortunately I don't think this was bought through Baratza, but Amazon I believe, so I doubt they'll do it for me.

When you say that you must run the grinder when going finer - what happens if you don't? If you dial it finer without running by mistake, should you dial it back and then go finer while running?

Should I have beans in the hopper while I'm running it to dial it finer? Seems like a waste, but the booklet says no beans might damage the burrs. You say a bean could get jammed. Should I have beans in or not?
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,356
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 12:13pm
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

Saraluna Said:

Thank you!

I'm kind of flummoxed that you say it's impossible to pull a 20-25 second shot with the blade grinder, because I've been doing that. Perhaps it's the dose. I'm using the Silvia's double basket, and I fill it about 3/4 with unground beans as my measure - I don't have a scale. It's a bit farther down than 3/4 after I tamp. Yes, I have a good tamp that fits my basket perfectly. I tend to eyeball the espresso as it drips for when to turn it off - the ounces I extract vary a bit. Suffice it to say that I could grind much finer with the blade, so I'm heartened to hear I might just have to adjust the calibration. I will look on Baratza's website. Unfortunately I don't think this was bought through Baratza, but Amazon I believe, so I doubt they'll do it for me.

When you say that you must run the grinder when going finer - what happens if you don't? If you dial it finer without running by mistake, should you dial it back and then go finer while running?

Should I have beans in the hopper while I'm running it to dial it finer? Seems like a waste, but the booklet says no beans might damage the burrs. You say a bean could get jammed. Should I have beans in or not?

Posted September 13, 2012 link

Baratza will still service you, if bought through Amazon it was pry still them or another authorized reseller. Just give them a call and chat with them and they'll help you no problem. Excellent customer service, people even buy used grinders and deal with them no problem.

Far as the shots, what do you mean by 25 second shots with a blade grinder? How many ounces? What type of blade grinder? There's just no way, I have a blade grinder I use for garlic and some other things. And just for the heck of it I tried it on the CC1 and easily filled 2 ounce shot in like 9 seconds. An espresso shot pulled at 25 seconds requires extremely fine grind, for example the vid I have above. I made another just about 30 minutes ago with the Micro adjusted and pulled 1.75 ounces in 26 seconds time from 1st drop. And a blade grinder isn't coming anywhere near that type of grind, blade grinders are just barely acceptable for coarse drip coffee type grinds, they just pulverize the beans into coarse uneven bits. If a blade grinder could do that everyone and shop would have one in use for espresso for far cheaper then an espresso grinder. Can you get a vid pulling a shot with the blade grinder? Or take a pic of the grinds from the blade grinder.

I single dose so it's fine running the grinder w/ no beans, just don't go all the way to 0 or 1, depending on calibration, as the burrs may be touch at that point and can damage each other (goes for any grinder even the high end $$ commercial grinders). Basically anything less then 5 on my grinder will choke out or barely drip from my machine so I never both going further than that. Once I choked out I adjust back from there to a range around the 6's for espresso, usually just adjusting the micro arm here and there depending on the type of beans and dosage (i.e. smaller 14g dose I set a bit finer than for a 16g dose).

I would talk to Baratza first or pop open the case and check where the calibration is set b/c trying to adjust more since something may be off and you'll be wasting more beans.

Not sure on the size of the double basket for the Silvia but hopefully someone else will chime in on that. I think it holds 16 grams or so of "fine" espresso grounds.

example of french press grind on the left (which a blade grinder can barely do) and an espresso grind on the right:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/rancilio-rocky/rockygrinds1.JPG
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 12:43pm
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

I would call Baratza first.  I am not sure that they expect you to calibrate a new grinder.  Not everyone is mechanically inclined and wants to pull the case off a new grinder to see the screw setting.  I new grinder should be able to grind espresso when is it bought and sold for that.

The instructions show the case being taken off from the fastners, but, I believe that it can come off from removing the feet and finding the screws.  The feet attach firmly, but are only pressed in and do come out.  Again, ask Baratza the method.  They are very helpful, and nice.

I agree that you can adjust it running, or not if run to empty.  The grinds may otherwise be between the upper and lower and it will not adjust well, and then could go finer as it runs.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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rabbit
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Joined: 3 Sep 2008
Posts: 234
Location: maine
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: v.3  miss sylvia
Grinder: baratza  vario, encore
Vac Pot: presspot
Roaster: fresh roast sr300
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 4:22pm
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

youll have to calibrate it
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pilot25
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Joined: 7 Jan 2012
Posts: 116
Location: MD

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Thu Sep 13, 2012, 7:06pm
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

Check the other threads on the Preciso.

Call Baratza and give them the serial number on the bottom of the machine.  They can tell you if it's an updated model or the one they put out 6 months ago.  Wherever you got it from may have had it in stock for a long while.

If it's an older model Baratza will replace it under warranty.  Just tell them the problems you are having.  They are consistant with the mass problems people had and they know about it and fixed it in the new design.
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pwacher
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pwacher
Joined: 1 May 2011
Posts: 5
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Sep 15, 2012, 9:34am
Subject: Re: Can't grind fine enough with Baratza Preciso?
 

I'm glad I found this posting, i'm having the exact same issue with my refurb!

Dialing it to 1A is still too course for espresso, when pulling the shot it generally takes 5 seconds... not good. For my pourover, my setting is 9A.

Anyways, i'm going to try calibrate with the info from Baratza and see how it goes.

BTW: Baratza support is 100% world class. I had a broken hopper and some minor grind issues on my first refurb and they replaced it the next day.

Thanks,
Patrick.
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