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The next step up... Recommendations?
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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > The next step...  
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,056
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Aug 17, 2012, 5:04am
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

qualin Said:

... Pop out portafilter basket from portafilter.
Take out postal scale and tare the basket
Grind 13-15 grams of coffee into the basket and weigh
Grind a bit more and weigh again.
Get a teaspoon and spoon out enough coffee out of the basket until the scale weighs 16 grams.
Put the basket back into the portafilter and tamp
Lock, Load and Brew!
Clean up mess made by grinder afterwards ...

Posted August 16, 2012 link

Or you pre-weigh your dose, i.e. the coffee beans, before grinding directly into the filter basket, which sits snugly inside the portafilzer secured by the spring. Using a funnel, there's no mess to speak of.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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takeshi
Senior Member
takeshi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
Posts: 999
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto 3.0
Grinder: Super Jolly
Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Fri Aug 17, 2012, 2:42pm
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

qualin Said:

In all honesty, it seems to me like there's one heck of a debate on doser vs doserless. I don't make enough drinks to warrant using a doser
and I don't honestly like the idea of spending extra time cleaning old grounds out of the grinder. I make two double shots a day.

Posted August 7, 2012 link

There's really no debate.  It's a matter of subjective preference.  Quantity doesn't really matter to me.  I prefer dosers and at most I make 2 drinks a day.  Go with whatever you think will work best for you in this regard.  There is no universal right or wrong answer -- same as any other subjective matter.

qualin Said:

Realistically, I pull about 2 double shots a day, so part of me is worried about spending too much money on something that's overkill for what I need.

Posted August 11, 2012 link

Again, I make at most 2 drinks a day and I use a Super Jolly.  Its performance has been called comparable to the Vario and it was a massive upgrade in quality in the cup for me from the Rocky.  If you consider the date on discussions you'll see the the Rocky isn't really considered a suitable espresso grinder these days.  Again, it's really a matter of preference.  I can see where you're coming from regarding cost versus use but it's up to you to determine what you want both quality and budget wise.  Overkill is subjective.  At this point, I'd consider a Super Jolly to be baseline based on my experience.  YMMV as with any subjective matter.

qualin Said:

I think that either a weight based or time based grinder would significantly reduce the steps above and would
make the coffee making experience a little less OCD-Based.

Posted August 16, 2012 link

Whether espresso making is OCD-based or not is dependent on the person, not the equipment.  I know some will cringe but I dose volumetrically (after timing the grind to get roughly what I need) as it suits my needs/wants.  I could certainly achieve much better consistency by relying on weight but it's really not worth the added hassle to me and my taste buds.  Again, you need to sort out what works for you.

qualin Said:

I'm actually a little surprised by Hankua's comment about
a GS/3 and a Rocky. My guess is that he really hates the Robur.

Posted August 16, 2012 link

Subjective preference.  I wouldn't take a Rocky for free except for drip coffee use.  As I stated earlier, my switch from a Rocky to a Super Jolly was a massive improvement in the cup.  If you're going to rely on another person's preferences it helps to have a good understanding of whether or not their preferences are in line with your own.  I'm clearly not taking Hankua's recommendations when it comes to grinders but they might work for someone else.
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 231
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 5:48pm
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

strfish7 Said:

If you can manage a hand grinder at all, I certainly would recommend the Pharos.  While it can be a challenge to dial in, for the most part, I have pretty effortless adjustments (and they aren't needed that often).  The grind quality is superior to my Vario, and the time involved to grind and dose is reasonable.

Posted August 13, 2012 link

I have been using a Pharos and I own a Rocky.  Have not had the Pharos very long but it does grind beautifully, better than the Rocky, just not as quickly.

The Pharos is quiet compared to Rocky.

Pharos just needs the Voodoodaddy MOD to make retrieval of ground easier.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,221
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 6:48pm
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

Is it even fair to compare the grind quality of the Pharos to the Rocky?  Given the problems with micro-adjusting Rocky and the numerous people who've said the Pharos compares to 1k+ commercial grinders, they're in a completely different leagues.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 231
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 6:51pm
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

emradguy Said:

Is it even fair to compare the grind quality of the Pharos to the Rocky?  Given the problems with micro-adjusting Rocky and the numerous people who've said the Pharos compares to 1k+ commercial grinders, they're in a completely different leagues.

Posted August 28, 2012 link

If you don't mind cranking and saving money then I would say that Pharos is a good deal.  If you want to spend more money then get a grinder that will not fall apart easily and one that you can get parts for easily.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,221
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 7:28pm
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

I understand what you're saying...but...I don't understand how it relates to the post you quoted.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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BLrdFX
Senior Member
BLrdFX
Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 231
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: L-I
Grinder: HG-One, Kony-E, VL, Lido2
Drip: Chemex
Roaster: Quest
Posted Tue Aug 28, 2012, 7:30pm
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

emradguy Said:

I understand what you're saying...but...I don't understand how it relates to the post you quoted.

Posted August 28, 2012 link

The Pharos has no steps like the Rocky does, and it is not clumpy in the grind.  I was NOT implying that the Rocky falls apart, just saying don't get a cheap, flimsy grinder.
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,048
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Wed Aug 29, 2012, 7:57am
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

I was told the reason that they don't use the portafilter on the vario W is that the weight of the portafilter is too much for the small scale.  I took the spring out of my naked portafilter, put the basket on a stainless steel sauce cup that is stuck on my scale with a command 3m tape. (the kind you can remove without hurting the surface) Then I put the yogurt funnel in the basket and hit grind.  I tamp the basket out of the filter and drop it in the portafilter.  The only down side for me is knocking out a hot basket but that doesn't happen often for me.  I set it aside to cool a bit and knock just the basket.  It is very neat grind wise and I can do it in the morning half asleep and that is saying something...

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 665
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Wed Aug 29, 2012, 9:37pm
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

I was told the reason that they don't use the portafilter on the vario W is that the weight of the portafilter is too much for the small scale.

Posted August 29, 2012 link

It is a smart system. So it makes me wonder why, when Baratza did all of the electronics and set it all up, didn't include some kind of a plastic piece that a portalfilter basket could sit in, with tapered sides to direct grounds into the basket.

With the advent of 3D printers starting to become cheap, it makes me wonder if someone with mechanical knowledge couldn't prototype one for Barazta and sell them as accessories.

Coffeenoobie Said:

I took the spring out of my naked portafilter,

Posted August 29, 2012 link

Which leads me to another question. Will it hurt the portafilter or basket if I'm continually popping out the basket and snapping it back in all the time to weigh shots?

Coffeenoobie Said:

I tamp the basket out of the filter and drop it in the portafilter.

Posted August 29, 2012 link

I've tamped to put the portafilter basket basket back into the portafilter. I find that a satisfying "SNAP!" will indicate to me that I've used enough tamping pressure. Only problem is that
sometimes loose grinds will "jump" out of the basket when I do this.

Coffeenoobie Said:

The only down side for me is knocking out a hot basket

Posted August 29, 2012 link


Took out the spring once, nearly knocked the portafilter basket across the kitchen... won't be doing that again.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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russel
Senior Member
russel
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 458
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Conti Princess 2grp, GS/3...
Grinder: Super Caimanos x2, Forte BG,...
Drip: V60, Kalita Wave, Clever,...
Posted Wed Aug 29, 2012, 10:13pm
Subject: Re: The next step up... Recommendations?
 

Honestly...if it where as simple as including a little plastic piece do you think Baratza wouldn't have thought of that?  They already have what you are talking about for their other grinders.  Do you think that they just sort of forgot about their previous solution to grinding directly into a PF?  If you have ever used or taken a close look at a Vario W you would (should) have noted how the scale works.  There is a sensor in the bottom of the base that is a about 2cm square.  The grounds catch container sits on top of this sensor, touching only the sensor.  That's it.  When people say that the container "floats" on the sensor, that is a very accurate description of what is happening.  There is nothing else, and can be nothing else, connecting the container to the grinder.  A typical 58mm PF weights about 600g.  My LP PF is 300g.  My Peppina PF is 150g.  From experience I am going to guess that an new style LM PF is in the neighborhood of 750g.  Your little plastic insert would have to find a way to anchor and counter balance a varying weight of at least 150g to 750g whose center of mass is completely unknown, and it would have all of 1cm of space on the other side the the tiny little sensor to do so.

I'm not saying that weight based grinding directly into a PF isn't possible, but there is most certainly not a little plastic bitty that could be 3D printed that would allow the Vario W to do so.

Also, there's video footage of Kyle commenting on why it doesn't have said little plastic piece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz22_ojmER8


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