Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 7:32am Subject: commercial grinder for home user
I suppose this is just a rant, but if anyone knows of anything on the horizon, I would love to hear about it.
I would love to upgrade my grinder (Macap M4). However, I want one that fits under a counter and looks nice in the home environment, while giving me a significant advantage over what I already have. I've never seen the motors of any commercial grinder, such as the Compak K10 or the Mazzer Robur, but are they really so large that they can't be put into a smaller housing? I know those companies aren't trying to sell those grinders to the home user, but with so many of us here and on HB, and then the innumerable enthusiasts that don't go to the forums at all, they should really consider it.
Well...just my $0.02
. Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 8:14am Subject: Re: commercial grinder for home user
With commercial grinders, you're usually working in the 1/3 to 1/2 horsepower range for an electric motor, so, yes, they are that big, and commensurately heavy.
I think that living inside the bubble which is CG and coffee enthusiasts, it's easy to overestimate the size of the potential market for the type of "designer" grinder you're suggesting. Step outside for a moment and count the number of people around you who a) make espresso at home, b) aren't willing to settle for "good enough", c) are serious enough to invest in prosumer, much less pro gear, and d) have the resources and space to allow their passion free rein.
Yes, there are always going to be a number of people who will buy such a thing, but the professional market is so much larger than the enthusiast market that it would be very hard to make a business case to invest the R&D into such a project. Consider that total US sales of the Bezzerra Strega appears to be under 100 units. Would a designer grinder sell many more units that that, considering that it would be likely to be priced at a similar level?
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 7,775 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32 Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Msl. Com. brewers Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 9:17am Subject: Re: commercial grinder for home user
George said everything I was going to, like he said, in our community there is a demand but in the coffee world at large, we represent such a small % of the market, it is not cost effective to go after us. In a business, size is not such an issue as the coffee bar is the "centerpiece" of the store and there is no limit to size by way of over head cabs etc.
High horsepower means large size case for the most part. YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 9:56am Subject: Re: commercial grinder for home user
I have a mahlkonig k30 (flat burrs) it's extremely quiet, exceptionally fast and with the small hopper easily fits under most kitchen cabinets it is not a small machine but it is well designed and enhances my countertop Oh yes grinds wonderfully
russel Senior Member Joined: 12 Mar 2010 Posts: 448 Location: Los Angeles Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Conti Princess 2grp, GS/3... Grinder: Super Caimanos x2, Forte BG,... Drip: V60, Kalita Wave, Clever,...
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 8:39pm Subject: Re: commercial grinder for home user
I second the K30. The body is very compact. The hopper can be cut or replaced with the small one to allow it to fit under kitchen cabinets. The grind is excellent. The build is excellent as well. It looks nice.
EDIT: Concerning the size of commercial grinder - the motors are very large, but there is also the need for relays, capacitors, and wiring in there as well. if it doesn't live under the motor, it has to live next to it, which increases the foot print. We're talking about commercial units designed and manufactured for commercial environments. These aren't just the really expensive options for well healed home users. There's no need to make a short height commercial grinder, especially a really high end one. They are a key part of the heart of an espresso based business, they are the size they need to be.
I have always been impressed with the K30 because it's built in a totally different manner than the tall towers that come out of Italy. It has a wide footprint because the caps and the electronics are arranged around the motor/burr chamber instead of under it. That why the body can be so short. However, it isn't the tank that Mazzers are, and thanks to the finicky/"precise" nature or its build I had a poorly packaged second hand K30 rip itself apart in the clumsy hands of UPS to the point that the repairs cost more than I paid for it (these weren't mechanical repairs either, just new body pieces).
Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012, 5:04pm Subject: Re: commercial grinder for home user
I love my Macap M4s. I got my first one, to replace a Rocky, while I still had my Silvia. I noticed a huge difference in the cup. My Rocky was dethroned to "the decaf grinder" until I got my Duetto...at which time I got my second M4 for decaf (we actually use both everyday in my house).
I'm wondering how noticeable the difference would be if I did indeed upgrade to the K30. I think at this point the desire to upgrade really is just the bug, as I have nothing to complain about with my setup. I'd be setting aside a little money each month for the next year or so to get the K30 (in order to satisfy the wife's desire to keep me from spending wildly).
. Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
TonyVan Senior Member Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 276 Location: Pacific Northwest Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: GS/3, La Pavoni Grinder: Macap M7K, Rocky Drip: Kone
Posted Thu Aug 9, 2012, 8:28pm Subject: Re: commercial grinder for home user
I also liked my Macap M4 very much - enough that when I upgraded to a big 68mm conical, I stayed with Macap and got an M7K. This brought major, major improvements. Big difference.
I hear great things about the K30 too and - let's say for sake of argument that the M7k and K30 produce quality in the same ballpark - if you go with either one you will indeed get immediately identifiable improvements in the cup.
I did some serious modifications in the M7K to revise its feed/hopper setup for single dosing - in which it truly excels - and to fit under 15" cabinets, which it manages just well enough. As a dual-grinder person, you're evidently not a single-doser at the moment. You may want to consider it though, since it's extremely efficient when you use multiple coffees as you do, and also very consistent. Plus, of course, you need only one grinder and you can therefore afford one that's twice the cost of two lesser units. And it takes less space.
And you will always be using your "best" grinder. For the life of me, I can't figure out why so many people (and cafes) relegate decaf to a poor grinder - as your experience undoubtedly tells you, pulling a good decaf shot is usually trickier than with regular coffee, and using the best possible grinder pays off that much more in the quality of a decaf shot.
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