azerik Senior Member Joined: 6 Jun 2009 Posts: 278 Location: tempe Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulser, Cuisenart... Grinder: Compak K6 Drip: Hario Pour over Roaster: Bemhor
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 9:33am Subject: Compak k6 side step to Mazzer mini doserless question
My Compak k6 is a touch on the big side and still pretty noisy, plus it's got a doser. Back when I had an HX and 3 PF baskets to toggle through my PF I used the doser as I could pull a shot while grinding the next and a quick flip and smack in the prepped PF basket and I was on to the next shot. I also measure out my grinds and drop them in the grinder 1 shot at a time, sweep the doser, pop in the next set of beans. This worked with my HX. Now I have a Vivaldi S1 and 1 PF handle with a killer spring so no basket swap going on here. Plus I only have 1 basket. SO I've retrained myself to 1 PF. A touch slower but the PF handle almost requires this hard spring in order to knock out the puck without losing the basket, 53mm deep basket joy :). I have been able to not really WDT as of late and started questioning if I could step to a Mazzer and sell my k6. Reason I was looking at the Mazzer is the 1 shop I have gone to lately uses SJ's and I gotta say they are quiet. I understand the SJ is a BIG step up from the mini. Currently I have 64mm burrs and fairly clumpy grinds. I'd love to ditch the doser. This would put me to a K3 touch or Mazzer doserless. Both have drawbacks. As I know I can't have a hopper (unless it's the small Mazzer or K3 hopper) I'd still plan on dropping in measured amounts of beans, so timers don't do me any good really.
Is this thought just futile? Was there a SJ doserless? as a used SJ is nearly 1/2 the price of even a used mini and burrs are cheaper should I just look for a SJ doserless if they exist? I know I'll have to remove the finger guard/ whatever that screen is on the mini.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,666 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:25am Subject: Re: Compak k6 side step to Mazzer mini doserless question
Yes the SJ can be bought doserless and Mazzer sells the adapter kit if you want to change a SJ (or mini or Major, they all use the same kit) to a doserless. I had a doserless SJ and several dosered SJs and my personal preference was to run the SJ with the small MINI hopper and then use a darkroom timer to grind by time. This way, I could leave beans in the hopper and grind to dose by using the timer. I prefer to use the doser like you did, to grind for the next shot while doing something else. I find, that for me, the doser is much cleaner and I like it better but the short answer is yes, the SJ can be had or converted to doserless.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
JamesPN007 Senior Member Joined: 2 May 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Southeast Florida Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale S1 Vivaldi II Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:36am Subject: Re: Compak k6 side step to Mazzer mini doserless question
There is a SJ doserless (called the "SJ Electronic"), but it is VERY rare that you will come across a used one. They are also A LOT more expensive than their doser counterparts (a new doser SJ sells for $695 as compared to $1,349 for the SJ-E, at the same vendor, so almost double!!). In the 6 months I was looking for the ideal used grinder, I came across one used SJ-E, and it sold for about what a brand new Mini-E sells for. The Mini-E sells for just under $1,000 new.
At that $1,349 price, the SJ-E is awfully close to a couple of other doserless grinders that I would sooner put my money on. The Mahlkonig K30 Vario and Compak K-8 Fresh come to mind. From my research (and in my opinion based on that research), both of these grinders will produce a finer quality espresso grind as compared to the SJ.
I have never used a SJ or a K-8 Fresh. I have owned a doser Mazzer Mini and now have a K30 Vario. The K30 Vario is around the same price point as the SJ-E (maybe even less if you can snag a "like new" demo model from the manufacturer like I did). It produces a clump free grind and is un-godly fast. Like 16-17 grams in under 3 seconds fast. I know the doser/doserless debate comes down to personal preference, but having used both, I am loving the doserless.
JamesPN007 Senior Member Joined: 2 May 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Southeast Florida Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale S1 Vivaldi II Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 3:43pm Subject: Re: Compak k6 side step to Mazzer mini doserless question
azerik Said:
Now I have a Vivaldi S1 and 1 PF handle with a killer spring so no basket swap going on here. Plus I only have 1 basket. SO I've retrained myself to 1 PF. A touch slower but the PF handle almost requires this hard spring in order to knock out the puck without losing the basket, 53mm deep basket joy :).
I know that killer spring all too well. Check out the link below, which gives advice on loosening up that Vivaldi spring. I did this quick mod with my Vivaldi PF springs and it is now easy to get the baskets in and out. Extra baskets are pretty inexepnsive as well (so are extra springs in case you mess up yours in trying the above mod). My Vivaldi did come with 3 PF handles though (single spout, double spout, and bottomless), so I haven't really had the need to swap out baskets too often. With the combination of bottomless PF and super fast doserless grinder, I haven't had any need to swap out baskets or use multiple PF's, but your usage may be different from mine.
azerik Senior Member Joined: 6 Jun 2009 Posts: 278 Location: tempe Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulser, Cuisenart... Grinder: Compak K6 Drip: Hario Pour over Roaster: Bemhor
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 4:17pm Subject: Re: Compak k6 side step to Mazzer mini doserless question
JamesPN007 Said:
I know that killer spring all too well. Check out the link below, which gives advice on loosening up that Vivaldi spring. I did this quick mod with my Vivaldi PF springs and it is now easy to get the baskets in and out. Extra baskets are pretty inexepnsive as well (so are extra springs in case you mess up yours in trying the above mod). My Vivaldi did come with 3 PF handles though (single spout, double spout, and bottomless), so I haven't really had the need to swap out baskets too often. With the combination of bottomless PF and super fast doserless grinder, I haven't had any need to swap out baskets or use multiple PF's, but your usage may be different from mine.
It's that super fast doserless grinding that's missing from mine. Due to sweeping the chute and doser I waste a good 20 second per pull on clean up and getting all my grind to the pf. Which is why I'm thinking of going doserless. I cut one of my PF's to bottomless which helped a ton with the water dripping out of the pf while grinding the next shot.
I've looked at the SJ and looked into getting just the doserless piece, and honestly $300 for a funnel is a bit much. A Mini is about $400 used, older mini anyway but few doserless show up. Spending $300 on the doserless funnel for a SJ is also back in to the K8 fresh etc range. But I'll never use the Fresh's computerized jibber jabber when i'm measuring out beans before hand. I'd attempt to make a funnel as i have a guy that does metal work, this is not that hard, more so if the doser has the shape we need for the mount.
I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of the 20 seconds of screwing around to collect all my grind all over the inside of the doser /chute really. I'm thinking, outloud as usual, that the distillery style hopper would get more into the PF faster, oh snap, brain fart, I could make a beer funnel for my k6 and possibly solve all but the slight noise. Hmm why wasn't this first in my thought process....
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,666 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2012, 5:51am Subject: Re: Compak k6 side step to Mazzer mini doserless question
For easy use of a Mazzer doser, http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/562237 It takes all the cleaning out of it, thus reducing that time to only what it takes to flick your doser handle about 4 times. I use a plastic chop stick to sweep the chute, it takes more time to type and read than to do (finger guard removed) and a digital dark room timer to set grind time to 1/10 second. YMMV.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
azerik Senior Member Joined: 6 Jun 2009 Posts: 278 Location: tempe Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Pulser, Cuisenart... Grinder: Compak K6 Drip: Hario Pour over Roaster: Bemhor
Posted Fri Jun 15, 2012, 10:43am Subject: Re: Compak k6 side step to Mazzer mini doserless question
calblacksmith Said:
For easy use of a Mazzer doser, http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/562237 It takes all the cleaning out of it, thus reducing that time to only what it takes to flick your doser handle about 4 times. I use a plastic chop stick to sweep the chute, it takes more time to type and read than to do (finger guard removed) and a digital dark room timer to set grind time to 1/10 second. YMMV.
I've actually already done this to the K6, still too many places for grounds to get hung up and I don't grind the next while pulling anymore. Looks like I'm going to mod this to a new funnel style doserless and move my pf rest up to the doser mount. My chute is cracked (something with the torque on the k6 ends up breaking the chute after a couple years, I've had 2 K6's do this) so I'll be shotening that as well as making it angled cutting the whole chute length to about 3/8 of an inch before dumping to the funnel. I'll update and if this doesn't work I'll get a SJ or Mini :)
Posted Sun Jun 17, 2012, 8:53pm Subject: Re: Compak k6 side step to Mazzer mini doserless question
I just want to add that going doserless doesn't change the fact that you have a chute that collects grinds. You will need to get those grinds out of there one way or another, be it sweeping, flushing, or purging. The K8 Fresh (and I assume K10 fresh) and the K30 have what is becoming a more common "solution" to both chute retention and clumping, at least on grind on demand grinders. There is a thin flap that bisects the chute from the top inner egde to the lower outer edge. The K30's is metal, the K8's is rubber or silicone. This cuts the chute volume in half while breaking up clumps as they leave the chute. Their chutes cannot be swept clean without messing with this flap, and I don't think that it makes sense to remove it just to be able to still not really sweep out that last gram of grinds. I'm not sure what the Mazzer E grinders do with the chute. I haven't seen anything to suggest that they do something other than add a clump breaking grid over the regular chute opening.
For single dosing with the shortest routine I liked using an SJ and a small silicone finger bowl from a kitchen store that fit stug around the collar and could be depressed quickly to flush the grinds in the chute out into the doser. I could never find a bowl that worked well on my K6 what with the lack of a lip up there. However, single dosing and speed are contradictory things. Single dosing is about accuracy and waste reduction at the expense of speed and convenience. I don't usually single dose, and when I do its with Pharos. I prefer the set up that Wayne is talking about, but I just purge out the stale grinds.
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