Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,312 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri May 25, 2012, 12:45pm Subject: Re: Espresso only grinder
Commercial grinders have better build quality, they were meant to be used non stop day and and day out, size of machine and the cost of grinds wasted are meaningless to them.
My Vario W probably will not last as long as an SJ but I am not buying a grinder to leave to my grandchildren, I am buying a grinder for light use in a home. I felt if I got a used SJ machine that I would have to replace the burrs and mod it right away to make work the way I need to use it. (350 for grinder, 64 for burrs, timer, tools and misc cash for mods that puts it within spitting distance of the 500 mark) Add that to it, doesn't really fit in my kitchen, then I have not really saved much if any money by getting it over the Baratza. Not only is my grinder not getting used anywhere near as much as a commercial unit, it doesn't waste my expensive coffee with mess or grind retention, it weighs the grinds for me which I love and most importantly it fits. Baratza service is good and maybe in 5 or 10 years I will have a larger house and budget but by then I expect more grinders will have the features that Baratza has right now so there will be more to pick from.
Bottom line for me: Most used commercial grinders I see are at 350 and up I would rather have a new Baratza that came out of the box doing what I wanted and with no size issues. Right now, I am not sure I could taste the difference in the cup of a larger commercial grinder and I have no where to put it. So, features for buck I think Baratza is a winner in this household.
But your bottom like might be vastly different than mine. And if I had found a $200 SJ when I was looking I would have jumped on it and had to make a coffee shrine somewhere other than the kitchen.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
ptorregrossa00 Senior Member Joined: 25 May 2012 Posts: 9 Location: New York Expertise: Pro Barista
Vac Pot: Breville Barista Express...
Posted Fri May 25, 2012, 1:36pm Subject: Re: Espresso only grinder
#1 I always go with a Burr grinder over a blade grinder because of the fact that the blades can burn the beans and waste so much of coffee. I just burnt up my last grinder so I went ahead and bought a combo espresso machine and grinder in one made by Breville. It was $600 dollars well spent. Now I have one less thin on the counter. But of course you dont have to spend that much on a decent burr grinder. I've seen them for around $40-$50 bucks.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,312 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri May 25, 2012, 2:05pm Subject: Re: Espresso only grinder
I am sorry to say that I believe even a beginner like me would taste the difference in the cup of a 50 burr and a 500 burr. I am not sure I could tell a 1k grinder from a 3k grinder in a blind folded taste test, but I believe I can tell my grinder from a $50 burr. I could taste the big difference in the cup from a 200 grinder to the 500 grinder and it surprised the heck out of me. My understanding is, the higher you go past mine the more slight the upgrade in taste becomes. So less taste bang for the buck i.e. diminishing returns.
I don't believe anyone here recommends a blade unless we are talking about grinding spices.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,698 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Fri May 25, 2012, 2:25pm Subject: Re: Espresso only grinder
^ ditto.
Also, blade grinders don't produce consistent particle size. If you were to look at the ground coffee under a strong magnifying glass or a weak microscope, you'd see the particle sizes all over the place in a wide range. This leads to areas of underextraction and areas of overextraction in the cup...and, no...those don't balance out.
jwsnyder919 Senior Member Joined: 28 Jun 2011 Posts: 87 Location: All over Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: QM Andreja Premium Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Fri May 25, 2012, 3:30pm Subject: Re: Espresso only grinder
emradguy Said:
^ ditto.
Also, blade grinders don't produce consistent particle size. If you were to look at the ground coffee under a strong magnifying glass or a weak microscope, you'd see the particle sizes all over the place in a wide range. This leads to areas of underextraction and areas of overextraction in the cup...and, no...those don't balance out.
EDIT: thread creep coming...but after seeing discussion of burr over whirly blade and getting off the phone with my brother trying to get him to buy a burr, it felt apropos.
Not to flog the dying horse, but if there's one thing I've told even my non-coffee-snob friends to do, it's get away from the whirly blade. The ones who have gone a burr grinder (Baratza Maestro plus or more recently the Encore) have said they can't believe what a difference it makes for their morning drip, french press, or pour over. Consistency is the chief reason for this. I've become evangelical about getting those whose palates I care about to get a burr grinder. My brother avoids the topic all together now when I bring up coffee, but he shall be getting a encore for his birthday whether he likes it or not. I'll sleep better knowing the palates of Brooklyn, NY are safe.
They call me. Grinderman (like the awesome nick cave band, but much more overweight...). Attempting to save palates one day at a time.
Posted Fri May 25, 2012, 8:34pm Subject: Re: Espresso only grinder
ptorregrossa00 Said:
#1 I always go with a Burr grinder over a blade grinder because of the fact that the blades can burn the beans and waste so much of coffee. I just burnt up my last grinder so I went ahead and bought a combo espresso machine and grinder in one made by Breville. It was $600 dollars well spent. Now I have one less thin on the counter. But of course you dont have to spend that much on a decent burr grinder. I've seen them for around $40-$50 bucks.
First off: Yes, blade grinders are awful--not because the blades are burning the beans--because they're chopping, not grinding.
Second: there aren't many people here that think saving counter space by having the grinder built into the machine is a good thing, especially when you can get a much better grind than you will get from the Barista Express.
Third: Just because it's a burr grinder doesn't mean it's a good grinder. You cannot get a decent burr grinder for espresso for $40-$50, unless you buy some beat to crap grinder from someone who has no idea what they're worth.
Fourth: Are you a Breville rep or something? I've seen you post about your Barista express like two or three times on different topics, saying just about the same exact thing.
If you're just a newbie excited about your new set-up, then I don't mean to be too hard on you, just do a little research before you offer advice about things.
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