Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 7:20am Subject: Upgrade from Macap M4 doser to Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic
Hi all,
As of late I've noticed that I simply am unable to get consistent shots back to back with regards to dosing time. I'm using fresh beans from a local roaster, machine is heated up to temp each time, yet the dosing is border lining on me getting out a gram scale and measuring before tamping and pulling the shot.
The machine I'm using is a 220v Mr. Espresso Astoria JUN single group. I doubt it's the machine. I had a chance to use a Mazzer super jolly at a espresso shop a few months back and it had the digital timer and no doser. I'm wondering if it's a worthwhile upgrade and if it's even possible to sell my Macap M4. Nothing wrong with the Macap it's been great but I'm just tired of getting shots that go longer than others at times, portafilter too full of grinds and having to start over etc.
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 8:51am Subject: Re: Upgrade from Macap M4 doser to Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic
How much dosing time variation are you talking about? To me, few seconds more or less isn't biggest concern as long as there is no blonding. Do your pulled shots taste significantly different (sink vs God shot)? Until I dialed in, I used to single dose and measured the shot weights. Nowadays, I only eye gaze the fill level, but pay close attention to the shaved fill level (before tamping) and tampered level. FYI, I have a machine that is somewhat sensitive to over-dozing/overfilling. With enough practice, most of my filled baskets are within 0.3 to 1 gram of each other. Also how fresh are your beans? When my beans are TOO fresh (within 2 days of roasting without proper rest), I often have a problem with proper extraction or pulling consistent shots.
Frankly, nothing will stop you from selling your M4 and moving up to Super Jolly-E. However, even with a doser, you can be fairly consistent with the grind weight. I typically fill my basket loose above the basket level using the doser and do a gentle shaving of top loose fill by moving my finger to comb off the excess. With enough practice, I don't really need to discard much of grinds while evening out the filled grinds in NSEW directions. I tamp lightly, tap, then tamp to the proper level at 30-40lbs of pressure. Assume I do a proper ritualistic water dance with my HX machine, shots produced this way are fairly consistent with taste and shot time (within a second or two from each other). YMMV, but most of doseless models from Mazzer suffer a bit of crumbing and cost a bit more than dosed models. If you are doing WDT, than the little crumbing won't be an issue. IMHO, unless you believe your M4 is not grinding consistently, SJ-E may not improve your shot-TIME considerably. If I was considering upgrade in your situation, I would rather go with a Major than SJ-E. Of course, YMMV. Just my 2KBs worth!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,671 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 11:43am Subject: Re: Upgrade from Macap M4 doser to Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic
A used SJ and a dark room timer gives you a better grinder setup for less money and with a doser you can grind for the next shot whole pulling a shot with nice consistency between the shots.
I used that setup for years with very good results.
Ymmv!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
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Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,823 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 2:21pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Macap M4 doser to Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic
There may be more going on here than grinder's inability. How old is the grinder? Burrs may need to be replaced. Outside of that I'd suspect technique; sorry man :-( The M4 is a very capable grinder and getting consistent shots shouldn't be an issue. I've owned two, loved them both and consistency was never a problem. In fact overall shots were probably more consistent with my M4's than my SJ.
That being said, the SJ is a step up in grind quality over the M4. It's a noticeable difference; SJ produces a more defined shot while the M4 is a little muddy in comparison.
KennyH Said:
Get a Bunn LPG or similar instead. Espresso grinders are engineered to grind well for espresso, and as such they're often not very good at drip.
M4 isn't well suited for non espresso IMO. I wasn't impressed with the non espresso grind I got from it. Very inconsistent. Bunn makes a solid grinder, but you might also want to look at the Baratza line.
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 2:29pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Macap M4 doser to Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic
Joel_B Said:
There may be more going on here than grinder's inability. How old is the grinder? Burrs may need to be replaced. Outside of that I'd suspect technique; sorry man :-( The M4 is a very capable grinder and getting consistent shots shouldn't be an issue. I've owned two, loved them both and consistency was never a problem. In fact overall shots were probably more consistent with my M4's than my SJ.
That being said, the SJ is a step up in grind quality over the M4. It's a noticeable difference; SJ produces a more defined shot while the M4 is a little muddy in comparison.
No offense taken :) I often wonder sometimes if it's tamping pressure but I was told by a pro barista (so he claimed) that tamping pressure is irrelevant given the pressure the puck is put under. I have a click tamp, a click mat, tried the bathroom scale.
The Macap I have is three years old, going on four. Original burrs. I thought that with non-commercial use these burrs would probably last forever, or at least for 5 or more years. I'll have to look into getting a new set of burrs before dumping 1k on a new grinder. Maybe I do use it too often and drink way too much espresso!
Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,823 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 2:46pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Macap M4 doser to Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic
I wouldn't say tamping is irrelavent. But it's not a huge factor. It's low enough of a factor I wouldn't even consider it an issue. Sounds like youre able to tamp with enough consistency.
Ya know, I'm not sure the life span on burrs. Has the consistency of the shots degraded for you or has it always been an issue? Might be something to look at, but hopefully someone with more expertise can give you more insight on exactly how much coffee is the life span.
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 3:01pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Macap M4 doser to Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic
Joel_B Said:
I wouldn't say tamping is irrelavent. But it's not a huge factor. It's low enough of a factor I wouldn't even consider it an issue. Sounds like youre able to tamp with enough consistency.
Ya know, I'm not sure the life span on burrs. Has the consistency of the shots degraded for you or has it always been an issue? Might be something to look at, but hopefully someone with more expertise can give you more insight on exactly how much coffee is the life span.
I thought it was odd that tamping pressure not be taken into consideration. It seems the consistency has always been an issue, I've just noticed it more now than before. Back to the drawing board with my technique possibly then.
Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,823 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 3:06pm Subject: Re: Upgrade from Macap M4 doser to Mazzer Super Jolly Electronic
Tamping has been over emphasized. Just tamp linear to the basket and with relative consistent pressure, it's not going to play much of a factor. Sounds like you've practiced enough to know around what you're tamping; 5lbs either way you'll be good.
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