cactus Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2012 Posts: 18 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 1:54pm Subject: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
Okay, so the Preciso has up to 440 individual steps on its grind settings, and theoretically a stepless can have an infinite number of settings, but the main question is, can I really dial in 440+ individual settings on a stepless by moving the adjustment ring by mere fractions of a millimetre???
I've heard that in a stepped, some people have been saying that their ideal grind is in between settings (ie with the Rocky), hence the Preciso came up with 440 settings. But, can a stepless really be as accurate as the Preciso? (and vice versa??)
I'm deciding between a K3 or an MC4 versus a stepped, like the Preciso. If the Preciso can be dialed in that accurately, do I really need a stepless, like a K3 or MC4????
GDK Senior Member Joined: 17 Feb 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Ontario, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: MiniVivaldi II, preinfusion,... Grinder: Baratza Vario W
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 3:24pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
A step with the Vario translates in 2-3sec pour difference for espresso - sufficient precision for all intends and purposes. Preciso may be similar (?). More precision is useless given other factors that will dominate at that point, shot to shot, like distribution and tamping. If you are alternating beans, stepped grinder will give you an easy and precise back and forth adjustments.
As for your grinder choice, I would look into other factors as well - stepped vs. stepless is one of the variables.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,761 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 3:27pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
you want step less or very very fine steps. either setup will allow you to get the accuracy you need. it is all about being able to make very fine adjustments as long as you can make a small adjustments you will find what you need in a grind for your shot
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
MARIOBARBA Senior Member Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Posts: 126 Location: MONTREAL CANADA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso DUO Prof TRONIC Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 3:42pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
I haven't longed for a stepless grinder with the Vario. Btw if you are looking for alternatives to the mc4 or k3 you should be looking at the Vario not Preciso, they are different classes build wise. In reality any if these will serve you well. You should be considering other factors though.
cactus Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2012 Posts: 18 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 3:55pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
okay, so if a single Vario step produces a 2 -3 second difference, then the Preciso would be even less than that, not considering other things such as tamp pressure, volume of coffee etc. The Vario has 230 steps and the Preciso has 440 steps. Overkill maybe?????
But going back to the stepless, can I really get that level of accuracy? A little wiggle/jiggle/slide of the adjustment ring might equate to 5 steps on the Preciso or 3 steps on the Vario, wouldn't it? I can see this happening on the K3, but I've read that the MC4 has a worm drive, meaning that you rotate the adjustment like a screw or nob on the side.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,761 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 4:30pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
nope sorry you got it backward. you can get a much finer adjustment with the stepless than with steps regardless of how find the steps are. the two steped grinders that you are discussing, have fine enough steps to keep most people quite happy but you have even more adjustability with out steps.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,792 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 6:25pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
I can't speak for the MC4, but the M4 worm drive is rock solid. you can turn the screw 2 degrees if you want and it will hold where you put it, though I don't think you'd have a measurable a difference in you grind with that little turning of the screw. When they say infinite stepless on the Macap worm drive, they mean it.
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 6:54pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
cactus Said:
Okay, so the Preciso has up to 440 individual steps on its grind settings, and theoretically a stepless can have an infinite number of settings, but the main question is, can I really dial in 440+ individual settings on a stepless by moving the adjustment ring by mere fractions of a millimetre???
I've heard that in a stepped, some people have been saying that their ideal grind is in between settings (ie with the Rocky), hence the Preciso came up with 440 settings. But, can a stepless really be as accurate as the Preciso? (and vice versa??)
I'm deciding between a K3 or an MC4 versus a stepped, like the Preciso. If the Preciso can be dialed in that accurately, do I really need a stepless, like a K3 or MC4????
I think you mean "repeatable" not accurate. That said, the line between stepped and stepless becomes blurred the more steps you have on a given grinder. Secondarily, grind is not the only way to influence your extraction. Dose is just as important if not more important. If, for example, you're stuck between two settings on a Rancilio rocky, the way to influence that extraction is through slight changes in dose.
adan0327 Senior Member Joined: 6 Sep 2011 Posts: 45 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: la cimbali m32 dosatron 3... Grinder: Astoria Super Jolly Vac Pot: hario tc2 Drip: chemex, v60,kalitta... Roaster: Lol.... Pan :D
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 9:44pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
If you calculate pour by weight it is a world of a difference. 1 mm (actually) on my mazzer super jolly changes it by 2grams diference. My rossi on the other hand changes by 7grams per step. You wont really see the difference visually.
Posted Wed Feb 29, 2012, 10:04pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
cactus Said:
Okay, so the Preciso has up to 440 individual steps on its grind settings, and theoretically a stepless can have an infinite number of settings, but the main question is, can I really dial in 440+ individual settings on a stepless by moving the adjustment ring by mere fractions of a millimetre???
Hi Tony. Here is the way I look at the Preciso's steps - all 440 of them. First, examine the grinder's design. The 40 macro steps travel approximately 180 degrees out of the 360 degrees of possible circumference. Each micro step equals less than 1/2 of 1 degree of arc - 0.4 degrees. (180/440 = 0.4)
Anyone who plays with a Super Jolly knows adjusting just 1/2 a degree isn't easy with the stiff collar but it is not considered a problem. Even with a worm drive this small 0.4 degree difference is pretty hard to detect. Couple that info with knowledge of the forgiveness of the conical burr found in the Preciso with regard to fine grinding and your worries should be put to rest.
Also, the Baratza Preciso can change from coarse for pour over back to espresso fine easier than any grinder I have used.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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