calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,679 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 6:51am Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
GDK Said:
Here is a twist on this discussion. Stepped is better if the steps are small enough to allow for the fine tuning you care about.
This reminds me of the old discussion around digital vs. analog sound formats. As sampling frequencies and number of bits (discrete levels) kept rising, digital formats did not only equaled analog but eventually surpassed in in every category ;) Vario is likely of CD quality, Rocky is a low quality MP3.
Well, I guess you could look at it like that but I prefer to stay with tubes, horns and analog, I find that I get a MUCH better quality of depth and richness in the music VS ANY digital system I have heard, I am consistently blowing away digital only people with my humble analog system, low tech to be sure (well high end low tech anyway) with clearly better results. ;P
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
GDK Senior Member Joined: 17 Feb 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Ontario, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: MiniVivaldi II, preinfusion,... Grinder: Baratza Vario W
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 7:38am Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
I will stay away from analog vs. digital, though to make a point related to coffee - have you considered the fact that the acoustics in your room and speakers perhaps have a lot to do with the great sound being complimented by people? There are many factors in a grinder and espresso making in general as everyone here knows well better than me (I am new to espresso making). My first concern with the original question here was that stepless vs. stepped (but with large number of steps) is a dominating deciding factor and other important parameters like grind retention, fluffiness, reliability, etc are not mentioned. The poster said s/he wanted to avoid buyer's remorse - it will not come from the fact that Preciso or Vario are not "analog" - guaranteed! Anyway, I though spicing up the thread with sound analogy would make it more lively... :^)
Stuart Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2012 Posts: 113 Location: TX Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Baratza Vario Roaster: Air Crazy popper
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 8:15am Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
Heh. Tubes, horns, and analog, you say? So if I prefer single-ended triode 300B amps (and I do), I should go stepless because it's the right (for which read "consistent") thing to do?
The instructor at the class I took didn't offer much in the way of opinion about consumer espresso machines (He was pretty enthusiastic about the LM Strada EP). He did have one piece of advice concerning grinders, and that was "get stepless." I've been trying to come to terms with that recommendation, my budget, and the marketplace.
(I am puzzled by online opinions, too. Elsewhere, in a "Vario v. K3 Touch" thread, a contributor noted that the Vario performed on par with some Titan grinders, and that the K3 Touch had "smaller" burrs, in a class with the Mini. But the K3 burrs are 4mm larger in diameter than the Vario burrs. They're also steel, not ceramic. And diameter isn't everything.)
I get the feeling I wouldn't go wrong with either one.
(Grado Platinum, Rega RB300, Pink Triangle Tarantella, Bottlehead Audio Seduction, Foreplay, and Paramours with Magnequest iron feeding Hedlund horns with Lowther DX-2 drivers. I think the analogous(!) grinder would be an OE Pharos. Or a Versa M3.)
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,722 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 10:41am Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
cactus Said:
All I know is that either the vario (and maybe even the preciso) or the k3 /mc4 should meet my needs and on a blind test, I probably won't know the difference.
cactus Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2012 Posts: 18 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 12:53pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
yup, that's right. Aesthetics and price. Price is not so much a concern, as I'm already eyeing a Rocket, up from my first choice of a Silvia and then from the Oscar. I just have to come up with the funds and be able to fit them both in my budget.
GDK Senior Member Joined: 17 Feb 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Ontario, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: MiniVivaldi II, preinfusion,... Grinder: Baratza Vario W
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 12:57pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
Aestetics was a major factor in my case, price was secondary. A shiny grinder would go well with a Rocket, Vario looks great beside a Vivaldi - click here :). Then even better, the Vario-W auto-weight feature combined with the Vivaldi programmable pour auto-dosing and the Espro calibrated tamping provides consistency with next to no effort.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,317 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 4:24pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
It is much better to have upgraditus before you buy rather than right after you buy. (like my cheaper grinder) Think hard before you spend your money, unless you can afford to upgrade your machine every 8 months like some people around here I hate... well hate might be too strong a word... then again maybe not... waiting a 6 months to a year for a machine to be built for you then then selling it 8 months later... Yes, I believe I hate him....
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,317 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Mar 2, 2012, 4:27pm Subject: Re: stepped grinders vs stepless - is one really more accurate than the other?
oh, and I have a notepad on the side of my fridge that I keep the grinder settings of the different beans I am using. (I am playing with lots of beans till I find out what I like) and the steps help me keep track when I switch back and forth where stepless would not.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
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