Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012, 6:46pm Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
I checked the adjustment ring and found it was much looser at the 11:00 position.
Yep ... that seems to be the weak spot. My replacement should be tomorrow. Craig ... thanks for the tip on removing the base! I found it to be much easier ... less risk to damaging the case. Definitely, should be the preferred method.
Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012, 8:11pm Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
Dave, hope you're right about being back in business soon! This time next month we'll both have LIDOs to keep us entertained during "outages" like this...
CraigA Said:
I've been aware of the new parts for some time now, being a/the Canadian Baratza warranty & repair service technician. The 'quieter' gearbox is nothing more than a new baseplate for the "teething" problem that was mentioned by another CG member a while ago.
Anything you'd like to know about, more than likely I have an answer. {;-)
No one has really asked me any direct questions, so I haven't provided the answers..
A pic won't show up anything (I'll see if it does show up in a pic later) as the adjustment is very small. On the re-worked baseplates, the drive motors positioning holes are moved slightly closer to the aluminum gear so that the motors drive shaft meshes deeper into it.
Also, about the adjustment ring, how long has it been since the beefier version became standard issue?
I don't remember exactly, but on a box of updated parts I have I wrote my receiving date of May 2011., so 9 months ago. They were available probably earlier, but that's just when I got them.
Thanks in advance.
Anytime guys!
P.S. Old base plate is on the bottom with the new one overlaid on top to show the hole corrections. The amount of shift correction looks like 1/16th moons. Forgot to mention it, but the big hole for the aluminum gear shaft end was enlarged also. Due to shimming requirments & not all Precisios are equal (manufacturing tolerances, etc), the gear shaft end could end up rubbing on the original smaller baseplate hole. It now passes through the hole so rubbing isn't an issue anymore.
Not mentioned as no one knows & I'll mention it now, but the clearance even on the old base plate & the conical burrs shaft & end securing nut came fairly close to the upper aluminum end cap of the motor., about 1/16 - 3/32" clearance. With the new baseplate, that nut may or may not now come in slight contact (rubbing or hitting {corners of the hex nut}) with the upper motor end cap.
My solution to that problem was to rework (slightly file away concavely) the end cap to provide the clearance. I think that a better solution IMO than a re-stamping of the baseplate & the real possibility of interference/clearance issues would be to have a slighty larger diameter aluminum gear & retain the old baseplate stampings.
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 8:08am Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
Thanks. The Preciso that's going back was bought directly from Baratza on 6/7/11, so maybe I'd just missed out on these updates. Or I guess it's possible my grinder already had them, though Colin didn't seem to think so when he looked up the serial number. Anyway, somehow I'll survive without espresso until Tuesday. ;)
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 10:30am Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
"Dave, hope you're right about being back in business soon! This time next month we'll both have LIDOs to keep us entertained during "outages" like this..."
Just checked delivery status ... should have it by end of day today! Didn't mind hand grinding for espresso, matter of fact, actually enjoy/prefer it. But, hand grinding for a full pot ... different story :(
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 10:35am Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
Craig, I too have a minor issue with the Preciso, for now. It keeps grinding coarser and coarser. With my first Preciso, I started with about Macro 8, and it slowly went coarser and coarser to 2. And one day it just doesn't grind fine enough and the diagnose showed that the adjustment ring would come up off its seat during a grind for espresso. Works fine for coarse grind though.
With my second Preciso, when i first started using it, I was around Macro 6. Pierce helped me to test on an espresso machine before shipping to me. He was at Macro 10. But now, for me on the Cremina, it's down to Macro 2. If I were to grind for decaf, it's probably not fine enough. I did recalibrate it once slightly to the right. Not the finest yet but it's already on the most right windows.
Any idea what I could have done wrong? I have always run the grinder when adjusting to go finer because I know that would ruin the burr/adjustment if I don't do so. Is there any other possibility that could have caused this?
With the rate right now, it seems like it will probably be back to Baratza again in a few weeks. I don't even use it that often for the last 2 weeks since I got it. Maybe 5-7 times max.
The beans are definitely fresh and I have Mazzer Major and Pharos to be a comparison. On Major and Pharos, the grind setting stays relatively constant. I don't even adjust them for days. With preciso, that's another story.
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 11:42am Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
samuellaw178 Said:
Craig, I too have a minor issue with the Preciso, for now. It keeps grinding coarser and coarser. With my first Preciso, I started with about Macro 8, and it slowly went coarser and coarser to 2. And one day it just doesn't grind fine enough and the diagnose showed that the adjustment ring would come up off its seat during a grind for espresso. Works fine for coarse grind though.
Yes, the added pressure is popping off the grinds calibration two piece ring assembly off of the base/bottom anchoring ring #3 as in my pic on my 1st post way back up in this thread.
QK, can you please look there & tell me if this is the part you're referring to? You won't really be able to see or tell with the grinder case on either.. Thanks!
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 11:58am Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
CraigA Said:
Yes, the added pressure is popping off the grinds calibration two piece ring assembly off of the base/bottom anchoring ring #3 as in my pic on my 1st post way back up in this thread.
QK, can you please look there & tell me if this is the part you're referring to? You won't really be able to see or tell with the grinder case on either.. Thanks!
Sorry Craig, I think I made that unclear in my previous post. My Preciso(replacement) now has no problem. But it keeps going to the coarser range(same Macro setting) with infrequent usage and that got me concerned. Now it's settled about Macro 2-3 (2 steps away from 0). With a darker roast it's about 3-4. Not a big problem but I am just worried about the room for extra fineness. So I was wondering if there's any extra care I need to do to prevent damage to the grinder.
As for the previous grinder, I have already sent it back to Baratza. I did the finger pressure test last time, it came up at about 11 and 3 O clock. When pressed at 11 and 3 O clock, it snapped down with a soft but audible sound in my previous test. I am not sure which ring assembly exactly was wrong but I assume it's the whole piece that came up.
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:31pm Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
samuellaw178 Said:
Sorry Craig, I think I made that unclear in my previous post. My Preciso(replacement) now has no problem. But it keeps going to the coarser range(same Macro setting) with infrequent usage and that got me concerned. Now it's settled about Macro 2-3 (2 steps away from 0). With a darker roast it's about 3-4. Not a big problem but I am just worried about the room for extra fineness. So I was wondering if there's any extra care I need to do to prevent damage to the grinder.
Going too far (negative) from the default 'zero point' burr calibration of +10 - +11 could result in an outer ring burr holder failure. Bending & finally cracking/splitting, &/or any of the 3 outer ring burr holder tabs breaking. Depending on the degree of roast (lighter roasts are harder, darker roasts softer), it would vary how far down past +10 you would have to go for your particular espresso fineness.
I did the finger pressure test last time, it came up at about 11 and 3 O clock. When pressed at 11 and 3 O clock, it snapped down with a soft but audible sound in my previous test. I am not sure which ring assembly exactly was wrong but I assume it's the whole piece that came up.
That would be the #3 anchoring ring, & I've talked about what the problem is & my solution to that in previous posts., 3 calibration screws to anchor & screw down the anchoring ring so it's never an issue popping up again. I also had the blessing of Baratza President Kyle Anderson on my solution to the problem.
I'll find the post/s & I believe I have a pic of my solution too in a/the thread somewhere..
Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012, 1:30pm Subject: Re: Virtuoso Preciso Problem
CraigA Said:
Going too far (negative) from the default 'zero point' burr calibration of +10 - +11 could result in an outer ring burr holder failure. Bending & finally cracking/splitting, &/or any of the 3 outer ring burr holder tabs breaking. Depending on the degree of roast (lighter roasts are harder, darker roasts softer), it would vary how far down past +10 you would have to go for your particular espresso fineness.
I see. Pardon my another question: How far would be too far? This is my procedure: When I adjust the grinder, I run the grinder, turn the hopper to about 20 one step at a time (maybe about 0.5-1 sec in between). Then again, slowly go down further Macro setting one step at a time and pay attention to the sound. I would quickly back off when I hear a different sound (definitely less than 1 sec or maybe 0.5 sec), assuming that was the zero point. Is this not advisable to do so?
That would be the #3 anchoring ring, & I've talked about what the problem is & my solution to that in previous posts. I also had the blessing of Baratza President Kyle Anderson on my solution to the problem.
I'll find the post/s & I believe I have a pic of my solution too
That would be very helpful for all Preciso users. Thanks Craig! Embarrassingly, I think I did see your post somewhere about that but didn't read into detail *shame*
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