cremabella Senior Member Joined: 4 Mar 2008 Posts: 28 Location: NYC Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic; La Pavoni... Grinder: Bosch (burr)
Posted Mon Oct 6, 2008, 2:26pm Subject: MACAP M4 Stepless grinder: Doser or Doserless?
I am having a hard time choosing between a doser and doserless model (either one I get will be stepless). I only make espresso.
I make one shot of espresso per day. I want convenience but NOT if it is at the expense of the final product. I want to produce the best shot possible—that is the priority. (I will be getting a higher end machine than my Gaggia Classic eventually as well, so keep that in mind).
The reason I am considering doser model is because some people claim the grinds in my PF will be fluffier and will have little or no clumps.
From what I have read of the doserless model, some say there can be lots of clumping, and someone even mentioned an “avalanche” effect of grinds getting stuck in the exit hole or top of chute and eventually coming out in really large clumps.
Also concerning the doserless model. There is no PF holder, apparently a very large chute opening and some say grinds come out really fast and make it hard to get directly into a PF and not have coffee all over the place. Apparently the chute has a clip on it and was designed to hold a bag, not empty into a PF. Someone also said the angle of the chute was poorly conceived.
Finally, as far as the doserless model, I want to keep the machine as free of old grinds as possible, and it seems that getting a brush up the chute AND through the exit hole into the tunnel near the burrs is difficult if not impossible b/c of the bend.
Yesterday, I was able to try someone’s Rio grinder (Mazzer rebranded he said) which has a doser. Even with the doser, there was a lot of clumping, to my disappointment, although the owner of the grinder said he thinks the burrs may not be properly aligned, AND the grind was extremely fine in most of my attempts—enough to choke my Gaggia Classic. (I’m not sure if those factors should cause clumping anyway).
Here are my questions:
1)What are people’s experiences of clumping/avalanching with doserless AND with doser models?
2)Is it likely I will still have to break up clumps even if I get the doser model?
3)Do clumps really matter, since I will be tamping these into a hard puck eventually anyway? (And should they be broken up before tamping?).
4)Keeping in mind, that I make one shot a day, is a doser something that wears out and needs to be replaced with any frequency? Anyone have any idea how long a doser should last at that rate (someone mentioned they wear out and have to be replaced).
5)Won’t I be able to get a small vacuum device into more and deeper areas on the doser model, since the exit chute is out in the open and not accessed through a chute? So, wouldn’t the doser model end up the cleanest after each shot, if I put the effort in?
Comments from all people experienced with either model are greatly appreciated.
Posted Mon Oct 6, 2008, 4:48pm Subject: Re: MACAP M4 Stepless grinder: Doser or Doserless?
I owned the doserless version but recently upgraded to the dosered. The doserless does produce clumps, to be sure, and that's why I "upgraded." I had to go through a rather elaborate WDT procedure to declump. I've had no clumping problems whatsoever with the doser version. I believe clumps do matter; I can't claim any level of expertise, but the less-clumpier doser grinder has allowed me to produce better shots, fewer gushers, squirters, etc. by far.
I've never heard of a doser wearing out but I suppose anything's possible. My best guess is that under normal household usage, the doser should last our lifetime. Regarding a vacuum or other chute-cleaning method, the doserless grinder's chute is actually easily accessed for cleaning. Get a cheap, tin-handled brush, bend it at a 45 degree angle, and it's no problem to get the chute relatively clean. With the doser version, remove the finger guard inside of the doser, and use a chopstick to remove all lingering grounds. With either version, it's very easy to remove the top burr by spinning it off if you ever need or want to do a more intensive cleaning. Using Grindz once per month seems to do the trick for me.
Another trick of the trade for the doserless is to get some 100ml Pyrex beakers as they fit neatly over the exit chute, are held in place by the bag clip, and then also fit tidily into your pf basket to dump the grounds. I would measure out the beans to 0.1g, grind per dose, use the beakers, and it was a very neat process, wasting next to no coffee. But, there was still the clumping issue and I got tired of the declumping procedures. With the doser, it seems I waste a few grams of coffee per shot, it is messier, but a WAY faster and more streamlined process.
Both look stellar in the chrome version, are very quiet and produce a very even grind. Good luck with your decision.
Posted Mon Oct 6, 2008, 6:03pm Subject: Re: MACAP M4 Stepless grinder: Doser or Doserless?
I have a doser and doserless M4. all things considered I prefer my dosered over the doserless whether i'm making 1 drink or 4. Part of the "non clumping" of dosered grinders is that if you operate the doser AS the beans are being ground, the "twacking" of the doser easily breaks up any clumps. If you grind all the beans you'll be using and THEN use the doser, you might expect some clumps.
Each version has their ups and downs, but the only real downside of the doser is that you need to sweep out the doser after every session. I spend roughly 20-30seconds doing this which is less than the time I'd do the WDT on the doserless version. since this will be a dedicated espresso grinder, this doesn't really apply to you, but a doserless grinder would work better as an all in one grinder. yes, the doserless is clumpy as far the the M4 goes. Doser vs. doserless is really not much more than personal preference. i actually do the WDT on my dosered M4, but merely to better distribute the grinds and not really to break up clumps; the time spent doing the WDT is far less as well.
My personal advice is to get the dosered version. It's tidier, no clumps, and is great if you're pulling more than one shot at a time.
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