Posted Tue Apr 15, 2008, 7:23pm Subject: Not a Zass--what about Armin, Pe De, Peugeot and other brands?
I've been looking for a Zass on ebay (found one, but that's another post) and see all the other antique-y coffee grinder brands. Obviously the Zass grinders have proven themselves superior or they would not be in such demand by CoffeeGeeks, but what about Armin (Trosser?), Pe De Diemes, or Peugeot brands? Not counting all the generics that I see listed, but these other brands I mentioned seem to be well-known and sometimes go for as much or more as the Zass grinders.
Just wondering if they don't have the same quality burrs as the Zass grinders, or is their value as collectible items instead? It is hard to get an idea when I don't have a clear picture--in my mind or otherwise--of what the burrs in this manual grinders look like, or what Zass has that these do not.
Would appreciate any insight into the manual grinder market! Thanks!
Posted Wed Apr 16, 2008, 2:49pm Subject: Re: Not a Zass--what about Armin, Pe De, Peugeot and other brands?
Hi! I have been using a Peugeot Bresil mill for 2-3 years. It's excellent for moka or FP but do not grind fine enough for espresso. I saw on green beanery that other models do grind for espresso but they are expensive.
I tried a new Zass kneemill for espresso and it was quite good but a bit hard to turn. For FP or moka the Zass was harder to use and the grind was less even than my Peugeot.
Then I got a used Trosser off e-bay, they are well built but mine has a burr not properly centered on the shaft. I'll try to see if it can be fixed. It seems that you have to be lucky to get one that will grind even in the espresso range. I read good things on Pe De but have no experience with them.
orphanespresso Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2008 Posts: 174 Location: Troy Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Cremina Faemina Microcimbali... Grinder: Hand Grinders
Posted Tue Apr 22, 2008, 12:40am Subject: Re: Not a Zass--what about Armin, Pe De, Peugeot and other brands?
the Zassenhaus grinders are up there in quality, yes, but there are indeed others as well suited to grinding for espresso. We are making a study of this subject and may at some point have to write a book on it, or at least a consumer guide, but it is a big subject. To start with, there is a lot of misinformation on the topic based of conjecture and some level of personal experience, but after restoring about 45 german grinders I can generally observe: ---name brand does not automatically mean it is an espresso grinder ---some grinders are 'fast' grinding 14g beans in about 50 turns but at a tradeoff of hard turning while others can take up to 200 turns for 14g, it depends on the design intent of the maker, many Zass are slow, especially those marked Western Germany, most of the Dienes are fast, as are the KyM mills. The slow or moderate speed mills are much easier to turn. ---so far, no Armin Trosser has been great for espresso. ---Kym PeDe Zassenhaus DeVe, good bets for espresso and all stepless, Leinbrock's are also good, but they are stepped adjustment, but this makes adjustment easier than on the internal adjustment mills. ---wall mounts can be as good if not better than the box mills with a very easy stepless addjustment on the back of the frame, but then again, the price is generally higher so the gamble a bit greater as well. ---of the grinders currently refurbished, 28 have been fine for espresso and 17 have not, but these 17 are all good FP Moka Drip Vac grinders. ---grinders marked Western Germany are not always superior to the pre war mills, as some of the earlier ones from the 20's or 30's are excellent and the construction is much more heavy duty as well....these old ones can be fast and strong, with the burrs seemingly uneffected by time and use. ---as a caution, be prepared to completely disassemble and clean all ebay sourced grinders, as some must have led some type of tragic life before crossing the block....the last one was an indentured servant in a clove grinding operation...ouch.
Just some observations. Hopefully helpful. We love our hand grinders and really hope that they catch on as the home grinder of choice for once you get a good one you too will be sold. Doug and Barb
Posted Tue Apr 22, 2008, 1:20pm Subject: Re: Not a Zass--what about Armin, Pe De, Peugeot and other brands?
orphanespresso Said:
as a caution, be prepared to completely disassemble and clean all ebay sourced grinders, as some must have led some type of tragic life before crossing the block....the last one was an indentured servant in a clove grinding operation...ouch.
Ha! I hope my Zass hasn't been violated in this way. It's an ebay win and somewhere in transit from here and the Netherlands. Oops. I got bid-happy and didn't notice the seller location. I've ebayed for a long time and should know better! I didn't pay much, even with shipping, but I hope to see it...sometime. Anyway, I hope it's a good one.
Thanks for the info, too--I've been tracking many Zasses over the past weeks and very surprised to see some go for $25 and others go for well over $100. I wonder what makes some worth so much and others so little. I just don't know much about it.
Took all apart and cleaned and polished all metal and burrs. The burrs are in great condition considering it's age and cleaned up very nicely. Someday soon I will refinish the wood but it's just fine for now. Ed
Starchief Senior Member Joined: 7 May 2008 Posts: 38 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Saeco Grinder: Le'lit PL53 Roaster: hot air
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2008, 2:46pm Subject: Re: Not a Zass--what about Armin, Pe De, Peugeot and other brands?
Wow Ed, that's a nice looking grinder! I really like the porcelin (?) interior...should keep beans from sticking. Mine just has a metal interior, and sometimes requires a little bump while grinding. Maybe I just missed it on yours, but where is the adjustment nut? The nut holding the handle on isn't for adjustment is it?
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