Posted Thu May 22, 2008, 4:15pm Subject: Edit: Help: Rocky DL (dosing) results better than Cimbali Max Hybrid?
I received the much anticipated Max Hybrid and I stopped by the store to pick up some fresh Black Cat (roasted 8 days prior). I wanted to start dialing in the new grinder.
Well, I had to take the grinder from a factory setting of about 6 down to 2.25 to get me in the ballpark. But I keep getting channeling with this model. I'm basically grinding into the doser, then just thwacking the lever (not too hard) and trying to have all the grinder fall dead center. I still see some clumps, although not as bad as some doserless grinders. I then remove the PF and sweep across the the top with the edge of my plastic scooper, going N-S-W-E. Then give the PF a nice even tamp.
Are any of you Max Hybrid users doing something in addition to "just grinding"? Do the sweeper veins need to adjusted lower? They seem stuck on mine for some reason (the +/- sweeper dial won't budget even if I push down).
Granted, it's my first doser model. So I busted out my Rocky doserless with a click-clack lid and yogurt cup. I basically grind into the PF (with yogurt cup attached) while pumping the click-clack. This fluffs the grinds as they come out of the chute and yields far better results (tons of tiger stripping and a nice even flow) using the same N-S-W-E and tamp technique. So far I'm not too impressed with the Max Hybrid, but I'm sure it's my technique using this Max Hybrid.
Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong or need to be doing?
Posted Thu May 22, 2008, 8:23pm Subject: Re: Help: Rocky DL results better than Cimbali Max Hybrid
I wanted to give an update. After using both the Rocky doserless and the Max Hybrid, I am leaning favorably towards keeping the Rocky DL as the staple grinder on my countertop. It's not to say the Max Hybrid isn't a better grinder, but I believe the WDT needs to be used for this grinder (or some variant) to get an even flowing shot using a naked portafilter. I don't think it's as simple as "grind, dose & tamp - thank you ma'am".
I'll try to get some videos posted showing the difference... and right now, the $300 Rocky (using the click-clack and yogurt cup) is kicking the $800 Hybrid's butt.
Are there any other Hybrid users out there who have a certain technique?
Posted Fri May 23, 2008, 6:03am Subject: Re: Help: Rocky DL results better than Cimbali Max Hybrid
I can attest to this for I went over to Gabe's to see the Hybrid first hand as well as sample the fruits of both Grinders. Gabe's technique with the Rocky produces such an excellent, consistent grind that is fluffy and almost zero clumps...I was floored!!!! The Yogurt Cup trick along with the Click Clack put the Hybrid to shame...and you can quote me on this!!! We ground up several shots pulled thru both his completely customized Silvia with the PID and his newly acquired HX (obviously the both machine preferred a slighly different grind Silvia seems to pull better with a finer grind than the HX. I gotta tell ya if I didn't see it, taste it, and so on I wouldn't have believed the rocky could grind better. We used fresh black cat and pulled shots thru a bottomless Portafilter on both machines as well...and after 12+ shots the Rocky killed the Hybrid. It might be early to give the rocky the gold...and Gabe does have his rocky modified as well as a year to perfect his method but I saw the results, tasted and so on...it was close but for the huge price difference I won't buy the Hybrid right now. The veins didnt sweep the doser very clean, it is big, noisey, and expensive...I dont get the hype? Could we be doing something wrong? Or is the method gabe uses with the Rocky that good? I cant get my Macap M4 to grind that fluffy or with zero clumps...consistency is the same on all...I gotta tell ya I was impressed with the rocky! David vs Goliath and david kicked some ass!
Posted Fri May 23, 2008, 7:28am Subject: Re: Help: Rocky DL results better than Cimbali Max Hybrid
Where are you guys dosing at? Jim Schulman (another_jim) found during the "TGP: Can it beat the Robur?" phase of the Titan Grinder Project on home-barista.com that the Rocky was a very solid competitior to the Mazzer Robur when dosing on the lower side.
The Rocky seems to be a great grinder when dosing doubles on the low side and I'll add that I loved the Rocky when I had it. A part of me wishes I never sold it, but then I wouldn't have the Super Jolly I do today. I wish I could afford one of each!
Posted Fri May 23, 2008, 8:57am Subject: Re: Help: Rocky DL results better than Cimbali Max Hybrid
In all fairness, I have never measured the amount of grinds used (grams).
Taken from "TGP: Can it beat the Robur?"...
This is not surprising, since the testers were making 17 to 18 gram doubles, and the Rocky pretty well sucks at that dose, the worst of all grinders tested. The big news for Rocky owners is that it is an absolutely terrific low dose grinder, the best of the group tested so far. So if you own one, get yourself used to making 12 to 14 grams shots.
I believe I may be under dosing with the Rocky based on the following.
1) The click-clack is aerating the grinds as they exit the chute (fluffy galore). 2) I don't tap or knock the PF in any way. 3) I scoop the grinds off so that it's even with the lip of the basket (no chicago chop or anything like that).
At this point, I'm not knocking the Max Hybrid in the flavor department. I haven't been able to pull what I consider a good looking shot (even flow, no channeling or sprays) using the Max Hybrid to even begin that evaluation.
I'll try under dosing the Max Hybrid tonight to see if the results improve.
Posted Fri May 23, 2008, 10:03pm Subject: Re: Help: Rocky DL results better than Cimbali Max Hybrid
Bob,
This thread "Observations on Click Clack lids for Rocky" covers the lid and how it's used to clean the chute after grinding. I basically use it during grinding to mitigate the issue of grounds clumping with a doserless. Here's a video I had put together showing the process a while back (the pour wasn't that great as I was experimenting with a triple basket at the time). I also re-wired the Rocky per this thread "Modifying Rocky Doserless switch for continuous grind" in order to accomplish this, as the Rocky uses a spring-loaded rocker switch to turn it on. This frees up the left hand to hold the portafilter and the right hand can pump the lid when grinding. The portafilter holder was removed as well.
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