Yeah, my post & pic on a most recent post in this thread just shy of 27 hrs ago.. I can't read Italian, but they're made in Italy. On the right hand side of that pic, & the Italy phone number. http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/grinders/352295#352295 There's too many off threads at times...
Just because the burrs don't arrive in factory packaging doesn't mean they are aftermarket. I emailed Espressoparts about their Macap/Mini burrs inquiring if they were OEM or aftermarket a few weeks ago as they weren't shown in factory packaging on their site. Their reply stated that even though they weren't in individual packages with factory labeling they came from the same factory but were bought in bulk. He stated that they could supply the burrs in factory wrap if I required such but that there was no difference in the burrs.
Just because the burrs don't arrive in factory packaging doesn't mean they are aftermarket. I emailed Espressoparts about their Macap/Mini burrs inquiring if they were OEM or aftermarket a few weeks ago as they weren't shown in factory packaging on their site. Their reply stated that even though they weren't in individual packages with factory labeling they came from the same factory but were bought in bulk.
He stated that they could supply the burrs in factory wrap if I required such but that there was no difference in the burrs.
Well loose burrs can possibly shift & bang/clunk around in shipment & dull the burrs, with a factory blister pac (heat shrinked) at source that wouldn't happen. Mine are razor sharp! {;-D
It is unfortunate that we have been portrayed as an inferior parts supplier due to the expert photographic analysis of a picture on our website.
It would be near impossible to detail everything I know about mill design, materials, finishing procedures, cutting angles, progressive cutting surfaces, conical or hybrid conical mills. I have been here long enough that I probably shouldn't have to. Nor should our company be compared to mills acquired through some part time vendor on Ebay.
We have sold 854 sets of Mazzer Super Jolly mills to date. We have sold 818 sets of Mazzer Major mills. We have sold 5 sets of Mazzer OEM mills. We were the OEM supplier to VersaLab. We are the only source for the grinder cleaner developed with the assistance of Mazzer 5 years ago in Italy. We are the importer for Duramills, made from a titanium, molybdenum and stainless steel alloy.
I have never seen nor have any idea where to source a mill set from China. I would not know where to find a cheap knock off mill and have no interest in trying to find one. All of our mills are from OEM suppliers to manufacturers in Italy except for the Azkoyen mill set which comes from Spain.
Mills that feel sharp to the touch are not deburred and must grind 6 to 7 kilos of coffee before they can be properly set. Mills that have been deburred do not and will feel slightly less sharp. They are more expensive.
Mazzer manufactures their own Super Jolly mills but as recently as last year still source their Major and conical mills from outside suppliers. Mazzer OEM mills are not deburred.
As the second largest supplier of espresso machine parts in North America, our core business is not geared towards end users but is merely for information and a resource for those who need our cleaning products, which are the only products approved for Italian super automatic espresso machines.
If our presence on the internet in this capacity presents a problem for those that have considerably more experience and expertise in espresso machine technology and design, I would be happy to remove any offending items.
I appreciate the kind words of support from those with which we have actually worked and look forward to continuing those positive relationships in the future.
I wish, however, to be neither the source nor victim of baseless internet accusations.
I have a set of Mazzer burrs and a set of the knock-offs sitting in front of me as I write this. I can definitely see that the ones pictured on the puly-usa site are Mazzer, (they are NOT knock-offs). The differences in the castings are slight, but detectable. I think the reason for the confusion may stem from the casting ring that runs around the perimeter of the burr. It's much more obvious on the knock-offs than on the Mazzer burrs. In the picture on the puly-usa site that ring looks more pronounced than on the new Mazzer burrs that I have here and on the ones I removed from my grinder. BUT, there are other differences. On the knock-offs the flat portion of the cutting surface is larger, and the ridge-ring on the top and bottom have rounded edges more so than the Mazzer burrs. I apologize for having added credibility to bad information. My previous post has been edited.
Bob Von Kaenel Brewster's Coffees Lincoln, Nebraska
Vendors need to realize that consumers are justifiably paranoid about the quality and source of replacement parts. Because of this vendors just need to give us more information. farmroast
Whether it is appropriate to slander a product when there is no basis resulting from actual customer experience. This and many sites are full of customer experience reports due to both product and service and the process is very valuable. That is not what has happened here. The comment was without foundation, irresponsible and certainly worthy of an apology at the very least.
What is an OEM part? Does Mazzer use knock off parts for the Major because they outsource the mill? If we purchase Super Jolly mills from the same company that produces the Major mill for Mazzer, does that make it a cheap knockoff? The Swift uses a mill from Switzerland that happens to fit the Rossi RR45; which is the knockoff?
Is a Giemme RL30 control box a knock off of the RL30 from Gicar or is it the other way around? Does anyone actually think that inside the Quickmill factory they have a heat element shop, a foundry for the group heads and the steam valve bodies, a pump manufacturing capability? No one does, unless like Brasilia, they own other companies that do. Is it a knockoff if you buy a portafilter without the logo from the company that makes the same portafilter WITH the logo for the manufacturer.
That is why it is important from whom you buy and not just what you buy. Espresso Parts, First Line, Chris Coffee and the like are all going to stand behind what they sell and are going to be around for a while. If you want to buy from ebay, good luck, but don't put us in the same category as someone working out of their garage who has no clue how to source parts from original equipment suppliers.
We have always considered ourselves a resource to this community as opposed to a active vendor. We have freely shared ideas, theories and opinions on this and many other boards without any expectation of a market response. Because this is not our core business, the information we convey is without bias and doesn't have an agenda except to convey information about this industry and the machines that make it work.
Whatever additional information anyone feels they need is theirs for the asking.
We are here as a courtesy and would be perfectly fine if we never sold a set of mills to an end user ever again. But to have our product impugned without any foundation in fact is unacceptable.
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