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PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > PID my Saeco via...  
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JGG
Senior Member
JGG
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,385
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Roaster: Hottop D w/HTC+TC4C
Posted Mon Oct 8, 2007, 8:31pm
Subject: Re: PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
 

Based on what you describe, my best guess is that your wiring is goofed up, your steam switch is stuck on, or your SSR is bad.  Since I am going to trust your wiring and that the steam switch is off, my theory is that the SSR is defective and is "closed", or shorted, at all times, despite the LED indicators.

The controller is doing what I would expect:  solid "on" until you are close to setpoint; blinking within 2X the proportional band near setpoint; then solid "off" after the temperature has reached/exceeded setpoint.

You definitely do not want to remove your steam thermostat.

It must stay in the circuit, especially if the SSR is acting up.  Besides, without the steam thermostat, then there is nothing to limit the boiler temperature when the steam switch is on.  The brew stat and the steam stat are wired in series, so the steam stat cannot be the cause of overheating in brew mode.

Checking the SSR is not easy to do without an independent indicator of the heater being on.  Many machines have a "ready light" or other device that shows when the heater is running.  If your machine has something like this, then turn the machine and PID on from a cold start and watch the heater light.  If the SSR is functioning correctly, there will be a one second or more lag before the heater turns on (because the PID controller goes through some startup stuff that takes that long).  If the heater light turns on instantly, then your SSR is shorted.

Further checking of the SSR would require a meter and your willingness to work around a live 220V circuit - not necessarily a smart idea.

Jim
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derailed
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 49
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: gaggia classic
Grinder: innova i mini
Roaster: heat gun dog bowl
Posted Tue Oct 9, 2007, 7:13am
Subject: Re: PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
 

My wiring is good.  Its actually pretty easy for the saeco.  All you have to do is really remove the leads from the brew stat and plug it into the SSR.  Inkstar's PDF are awesome.

Jim, I appreciate your advice :)

I have one of those light pens to check for current? but I dont have a meter.  Can I use that somehow?  Can the PID be broken?  Im in Poland now and I have not idea where to buy a new SSR.  If I have it shipped from the States, I want to make sure it is the SSR and not the PID or anything else.
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JGG
Senior Member
JGG
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,385
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Roaster: Hottop D w/HTC+TC4C
Posted Tue Oct 9, 2007, 9:29am
Subject: Re: PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
 

derailed Said:

I have one of those light pens to check for current? but I dont have a meter.  Can I use that somehow?

Posted October 9, 2007 link

Probably that pen measures voltage, not current.  There may be a way to use it, but I hesitate to suggest since I'm not completely sure how your machine is wired.

Usually, when the steam tstat is closed (e.g. conducting) and the SSR is "off" you will have mains voltage (~220VAC) across the two high voltage terminals on the SSR.  And when the SSR is "on" you should have around 1V.  

If you do not have 220VAC across the SSR terminals when the steam stat is conducting and the SSR should be shut off, then that probably indicates a short in the SSR.  But I caution you that this test is dependent on the actual wiring of the machine and may not hold true for your's.  If you are not absolutely sure about what you are doing, get some help because 220VAC can kill you.

For the cost of postage ($11), I can send you a tested SSR - I have a few spares.

Jim
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derailed
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 49
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: gaggia classic
Grinder: innova i mini
Roaster: heat gun dog bowl
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2007, 3:03am
Subject: Re: PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
 

I know this may sound stupid, but I am using lamp cord wire from the controller to the SSR. Could this impact anything?  I have read that you should use a large guage wire for the small DC volt but all I had around was the lamp cord.
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JGG
Senior Member
JGG
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,385
Location: Kentucky, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia; PID Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Roaster: Hottop D w/HTC+TC4C
Posted Wed Oct 10, 2007, 12:36pm
Subject: Re: PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
 

derailed Said:

I know this may sound stupid, but I am using lamp cord wire from the controller to the SSR. Could this impact anything?  I have read that you should use a large guage wire for the small DC volt but all I had around was the lamp cord.

Posted October 10, 2007 link

I wouldn't suggest lamp cord for the final installation because it can't tolerate the high temperatures inside the machine.

But it is not likely to be the cause of the present problem.  The current requirements of the control circuit are virtually nil and the lamp cord is easily heavy enough.

Jim
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derailed
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 49
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: gaggia classic
Grinder: innova i mini
Roaster: heat gun dog bowl
Posted Sun Nov 4, 2007, 11:59am
Subject: Re: PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
 

I finally did it!  The problem was infact the ssr.  I changed it out and now it works like a charm.  There are spacers where the wires from the machine to the controller can  go through saving me from drilling into the stainless steel.  It was a very easy mod with everyone here helping.  The shots now pull consistently and are much better than before the mod :)
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Reef
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Posts: 1
Location: GA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Thu Oct 16, 2008, 5:37am
Subject: Re: PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
 

The  www.atlantacoffeescene.com site is gone.  Does anybody have a copy of the pdf?

Jorge
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inkstar
Senior Member
inkstar
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 55
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: My Sweet Girl - Silvia
Grinder: KA Proline - modified
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Pour over, Apress
Roaster: rk drum, hot air
Posted Thu Oct 16, 2008, 6:44am
Subject: Re: PID my Saeco via venezia aka starbucks barista
 

sorry guys, email me at inkstarbr@comcast.net and I'll send you the pdf.  Work has been crazy this year, but I'm working on newtamper.com now, and I will eventually get around to putting a tech section up with this info.
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