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What's the real Third Wave coffee?
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Discussions > Espresso > General > What's the real...  
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,354
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 3:03pm
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

brianl Said:

No complaints from me. I dislike Intelly espresso and I'm not a fan of Metropolis either (I'm talking the flagship coffee houses). I have also given up on blackcat at home, haha. I don't think Intelly makes them intentionally sour, I just don't find their Barista's that good (ever since they blew up in popularity) at pulling shots and I wouldn't be surprised if its just in error.

I can't tell if you are saying bow truss and gaslight were sour or not. The good thing about those two cafes is they have a single origin and a traditional blend. I absolutely adore bow truss and gaslight is good but its a bunch of hipsters hogging all the seats.

Now if we are talking non-espresso, my favorite brewed coffee comes from a little ole place called Big Shoulders. I don't think i've ever gotten brewed coffee at intell, metropolis, bow truss or gaslight to be honest, haha. Maybe just a couple sips of my girlfriend's drinks. I did try iced coffee at metropolis once and it was the worth thing i've ever consumed in my life.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

yeh I meant Bowtruss and Gaslight were great, even medium roast were great vs same at Intelly that was a sour patch punch to the mouth. I love Metropolis, beans ordered online are great and Redline has been an chocolate explosion bomb since last year, and have had awesome coffee and shots everytime were up there or wifes up there and hits it up. Intelly is funny, I remember way back hearing all the rage about Blackcat, ordered some, blahhh, ordered again, nasty. Then when traveling I hit them up in LA and Chicago, and the shots/coffee were just as bad, when their shots at the stores tasted just like mine at home (in a bad way) I knew either they have no clue what their doing or their roasting is way off lol. Tried other beans of theirs and they were all way to bright/sour to me, was tolerable in milk, but straight shots there were gross. Even a shop by me stopped carrying various beans of theirs, guess I'm not alone lol. Maybe they grew too fast, and lost touch?
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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 441
Location: Chicago IL
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Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
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Drip: chemex
Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 5:54pm
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

They definitely used to be pretty solid a few years ago, not sure when you started experimenting. Then again, they were the first place i looked up when i became espresso obsessed so maybe its because my palate got more refined? I definitely noticed that it started getting less of a chocolate bomb and more citrusy.

I really need to go to metropolis when you do, I've been there numerous times with no success. I hear all these good things and i'm always let down.
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steamer
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steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
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Roaster: Hottop
Posted Sun May 11, 2014, 8:06am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

Most of the coffee I get for espresso is just shy of 2nd crack, good as it is. When getting a non espresso cup of coffee, I prefer at or just over 2nd crack, I have roasted for myself and have that control. Verve roasters do the 'espresso' beans on the light side. Now they do have a dark roast, but they don't call it part of their espresso line up. It is just at or slightly over 2nd crack. It is my current coffee subscription. My subscription shorts me about 5 days of coffee, so I get something to try in-between and see what I like, which for me wreaks havoc  with my shots, grinder and finding the right spot.
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,069
Location: Monrovia, CA
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Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Mon May 12, 2014, 8:09am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

steamer Said:

Most of the coffee I get for espresso is just shy of 2nd crack, good as it is. When getting a non espresso cup of coffee, I prefer at or just over 2nd crack, I have roasted for myself and have that control.

Posted May 11, 2014 link

Hi Terry,

I'm trying to understand what you mean by "at or just over 2nd crack."  Are you referring to 2dCs (start of 2dC)? Or does "just over" mean 2dCe?  

If it's the first, are you saying that you like "Full City" for all purposes?  Or something else?

FWIW, the modern trend in roasting is a lighter roast for brew (C - C+) and a darker one for espresso (C+ - FC+).  For the even less it's worth, when I roast the same SO for different purposes I roast brew at the C/C+ border (just after 1stCe), and espresso at C+/FC (anticipating 2dCs by about 5 - 10F).    

Rich
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IMAWriter
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IMAWriter
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Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Mon May 12, 2014, 9:15am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

boar_d_laze Said:

Hi Terry,

For the even less it's worth, when I roast the same SO for different purposes I roast brew at the C/C+ border (just after 1stCe), and espresso at C+/FC (anticipating 1stC by about 5 - 10F).    

Rich

Posted May 12, 2014 link

Rich, did you mean "anticipating 2nd crack by about 5-10F" ?????

FWIW, What I'm seeing are artisan espresso blends that APPEAR to be city+ full city, but when ground, the color is a medium red brown. Beans that grind like this usually have an Agtron of 65-70, not 50-55 as they appear.
My uneducated opinion is that this MAY indicate that there was somehow a lack of development to 1st crack.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
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Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Mon May 12, 2014, 9:48am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

IMAWriter Said:

Rich, did you mean "anticipating 2nd crack by about 5-10F" ?????

Posted May 12, 2014 link

Rob,

I did.  Corrected. Thanks.

FWIW, What I'm seeing are artisan espresso blends that APPEAR to be city+ full city, but when ground, the color is a medium red brown. Beans that grind like this usually have an Agtron of 65-70, not 50-55 as they appear.

We don't drink commercially roasted coffee from enough different sources to have to have a clue.  But I soooooo trust you on this...

BTW, how are you reading Agtron?  Tiles or colorimeter?  I'd love to find an affordable source for tiles.  If you have one, please share.

My uneducated opinion is that this MAY indicate that there was somehow a lack of development to 1st crack.

Sounds right.  Since almost every bean will allow you to get away with a very fast Ramp, it sounds like a high Charge temp, and/or a rushed Drying phase.  

Rich
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,841
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Mon May 12, 2014, 10:24am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

boar_d_laze Said:

Rob,

I did.  Corrected. Thanks.

We don't drink commercially roasted coffee from enough different sources to have to have a clue.  But I soooooo trust you on this...

BTW, how are you reading Agtron?  Tiles or colorimeter?  I'd love to find an affordable source for tiles.  If you have one, please share.

Sounds right.  Since almost every bean will allow you to get away with a very fast Ramp, it sounds like a high Charge temp, and/or a rushed Drying phase.  

Rich

Posted May 12, 2014 link

Rich, appreciate your sentiments towards my amateur opinion. Not sure I deserve such praise.
Regarding Agtron, just  printouts from years ago, memory and up close and personal views of a LOT of either roasted briquets or horribly striated, under-roasted beans, courtesy of myself. LOL
I went back into my Ken Davids tomes about 6 years ago to refresh my memory, re-learn the bean, etc.

This is probably not the time or place to say this, but I wonder if a few Artisan roasters have gotten a tad lazy and are roasting ALL their blends in one batch?
Yes, some blends with similar profile varietals can be done in one roast, but my best BLEND results have come from roasting the Brasilian or Sumatra by itself, the Idido component BY ITSELF, same with the Central...then post blending. Just my .02 there. The blending/tasting part is for me, the most fun.

As regards SO's, I totally go with you as regards pour-over. What's the point with taking that time with an over-roasted bean? Then again, if I want lemonade, I'll squeeze lemons. With the new Behmor's temp readouts, roasts can at least be somewhat assured of being pulled at the temperature you seek.
Folks like you having 1st class professional roasters can properly assess where your roast is by TEMPERATURE, not just color, smell,  etc.
I'm sure you can smell the envy across the www!

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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gracie89
Junior Member


Joined: 16 May 2014
Posts: 6
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri May 16, 2014, 1:42am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

Thanks for the answer.. I had this doubt as well.. :)
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