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DigiManTX
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Posts: 42
Location: Garland, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Anita
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 6:45am
Subject: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

why does it seem that every place i go to buy coffee from (except Redbird) refer to a pound of beans as 12oz instead of 16oz? is there something i'm missing here?

i bought some beans to try out from a local coffee shop here that sells Crimson Cup beans. i specifically asked the guy if it was a full pound or just 12oz... he assured me it was a full pound and he measures them out for each bag. i said cool. he was a tad busy so i lounged a bit. i didn't watch him measure them out, but he nodded to me that they were ready, we chatted for a bit about weights and stuff, and i rolled out. i weigh the bag this morning just to see.... 13oz... @#$%#$%^#^!!!!!!! so i'll assume the bag itself is an oz, so therefore.... 12oz!!! WTF???? what is the deal here?!?!?
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 7:03am
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

In this one example, you specifically asked if it was a full pound or 12 oz, he said, one pound, he lied.

Nearly all sellers who sell 12oz vs 16, will tell you how much you are buying, with the exception of the above, I can't think of one who does not.

A PERSONAL feeling is that with the down turn in the economy in the last 5 years, retailers are hard pressed to keep their heads out of the water so while a pound USED to be the norm, 12 oz is now and they kept the price the same for 12 oz as they used to charge for 16 oz, thus they had a price increase without looking like they had a price increase.

Most sellers had to raise prices but some are more tricky than others, a roaster here is So Cal, well known for good coffee, changed their website pricing. It USED to be that you got a full pound, then it was reduced to 12 oz because ...... customers thought that 16 oz was too much and would go stale so "bowing to market pressure of consumers" they made their bags 12 oz not 16. To this, when ordering a 5 pound bag from them, you had two prices, one for a pound and one for 5 pounds. Then they changed the price structure to keep the same price for the 5 pound bag BUT you paid that price ON TOP OF A 12 OZ BAG thus the price remained the same on the website but you paid the ~$13 price increase too.

I called them on this but the owner loudly protested that there was NO price increase and that the prices were the same.. Oh well.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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DigiManTX
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Posts: 42
Location: Garland, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Anita
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 7:40am
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

i sent the guy a message on FB... this was my reply:

"We measure our beans volumetrically, calibrated to a bag other than the one your beans came from. I apologize for the discrepancy, and I won't be bagging any more beans until we get a proper, dedicated scale. Come in some time after Thursday, and I'll have an 8-ounce bag with your name on it for your trouble.Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I appreciate your diligence."

so, at least he is recognizing that he messed up... hopefully this will ensure future purchases as i really do like these beans... lol
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victoriacoffees
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victoriacoffees
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 45
Location: Victoria
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Izzo Pompei
Grinder: Compak K8 Fresh; Mythos...
Roaster: Ambex 15K; Hottop
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 10:46am
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

A pound of coffee used to be a pound and in a strange kinda way, still is.

Before the market tanked and coffee prices went through the roof, most coffees on the shelf were in deed 16oz. But when the economy tanked, a strange trend began - 12 oz bags began appearing. Now I'm paraphrasing as I don't recall the source but can attest to the basis. The justification for this trend was argued that when a roaster puts a pound of green coffee in, what comes out is 12 oz of roasted beans. So, yes, one can argue you are still buying a pound.

Many roasting companies saw this as a way to keep costs down as it was becoming too costly to rob 4oz from the next batch to make up the difference. It makes sense to me but I still prefer to sell 1lb post roast.

 
-John
www.victoriacoffees.com
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
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Location: Monrovia, CA
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Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 11:27am
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

The term "1lb coffee bag," refers to the bag only.  A "1 pound bag of coffee" had better weigh 1 pound or a little over.  There are laws about short-weighing everywhere and they are enforced, too.  A contents of a "bag" of coffee, on the hand, can weigh whatever -- no matter the size of the bag or the bag's common trade name.    

I don't know about John (victoriacoffees) but my usual weight loss between greens and "medium roast" (C+/FC) browns is in the neighborhood of 14% - 15%.  As it happens, a 400g (~14oz, or 7/8lb) charge is within the sweetspot for my roaster; and 340g (~12oz) is half of a week's use for us.

It may well be that the change from 1lb bags to 12oz bags became popular as a result of commodity price increases or general economic conditions, but they don't call post hoc propter hoc a logical fallacy for nothing.  

Rich
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victoriacoffees
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victoriacoffees
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 45
Location: Victoria
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Espresso: Izzo Pompei
Grinder: Compak K8 Fresh; Mythos...
Roaster: Ambex 15K; Hottop
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 12:01pm
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

I agree. If one sells coffee, the weight should be disclosed. I was just relaying one historical perspective behind the weight changes and by no means suggesting retailerswere selling 12oz as 16oz.

 
-John
www.victoriacoffees.com
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 2:17pm
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

John, I understood what you intended, you did a good job and confirmed what I had observed in the change from 16 to 12 oz.

As BDL said though there is a big difference in the words. The volume of the bag 1#, is not the same as 1# of coffee. A bag can hold any amount up to the point when you can not close the bag. If they say 12oz, all is well and it is up to you to decide if it is worth it, if they say one POUND and give you 12 oz, then there are laws about that.

The times are tough and I am sure that businesses that cater to the specialty market are pinched even tighter than businesses that don't. We can choose to cut back on our consumption and that directly affects merchants who are facing increasing costs and lower demand and are looking for any angle to help.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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branmuffin17
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branmuffin17
Joined: 24 Sep 2013
Posts: 68
Location: Santa Ana, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu Feb 13, 2014, 12:43am
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

Hey Wayne,

Guessing because you didn't immediately call out the roaster you referred to that it was very much on purpose, but I'm curious to know which roaster it is.  Understand if you don't want to disclose on a public forum for "political" reasons.
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,181
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Thu Feb 13, 2014, 9:51am
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

branmuffin17 Said:

Guessing because you didn't immediately call out the roaster you referred to that it was very much on purpose, but I'm curious to know which roaster it is.  Understand if you don't want to disclose on a public forum for "political" reasons.

Posted February 13, 2014 link

I have a very good idea of the roaster's identity.  Assuming I'm right, there was NO dishonesty on the part of the roaster.  The problem was one of misunderstanding, only.

Rather than naming names and pointing fingers...  

The roaster in question, is one of the very best in the country.  It's either Wayne's favorite roaster, or one of two or three at the top of his list.  It's family owned and operated.  

The particular owner to whom Wayne refers is one of the best and most honest guys in coffee, as well as one of the America's premier roast masters.  I've spent a couple of days with him.  He's not only the kind of guy who performs complicated arithmetic in his head, but also the kind of guy who unconsciously assumes everyone does the same.  

The roaster's web site places the onus of addition and division on the buyer to determine cost/pound rather than just %*!#ing supplying it on the individual coffees' pages where the user places the order, or even in the %*!#ing cart.  It makes perfect sense to me that the family which owns and runs the business would overlook this obvious deficiency.  

Maybe Wayne and/or I should ask the owners about adding automatic total cost and price/pound calculators to the individual coffees' pages on the website.  What do you think Wayne?

Rich
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Feb 13, 2014, 10:29am
Subject: Re: Beans/Weight/Ounces Question
 

Way to many good roasters offering 1lb, ie really 1lb weights of coffee roasted, for me to deal with 12oz bags. I remember looking over past orders on my paypal, and I'd say 95% of the time the 12oz bags were same or more expensive to buy and the shipping was generally higher (sometimes same or slightly cheaper) vs 1lb shipments even from roasters that were in the same area, figure that one out lol.
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