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How to know what to adjust brew temp to based on bean, roast, profile
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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 487
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: HG One, OE Lido 2, Baratza...
Drip: Chemex/V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jan 24, 2014, 7:46am
Subject: Re: How to know what to adjust brew temp to based on bean, roast, profile
 

This is definitely an interesting discussion and something i've been struggling with. I have a couple Questions.

Most of the stuff I get is single origin about medium roast. My brew temperature is around 200F and the current beans are about 7 days post roast but the issues i mention are the days leading up to the 7 so definitely not stale.

I have been having a 'early blonding' issue and I seem to only be able to get about 20g in a 30 second pull before heavy blonding. I have no idea how people get the equivalent of 50g (~2oz from their brews). I have tried using 16g in a 15g basket, 18 and 17 in a 18 basket, and 22 and 21 in a triple basket (doesnt have a max measurement but i'd say around 23/24).

Now, is the best practice usually to check the puck right out of the portafilter and make sure there isn't a 'screw indention' on the top of the puck from the shower screen or does this not matter as much?

I have also tried to lower the brew temperature but not sure how that affects blonding.

I don't know many roasters that roast that far these days. Redbird being one of the only i've be able to find (def nothing local). Is this also a big factor?
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,089
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Fri Jan 24, 2014, 8:01am
Subject: Re: How to know what to adjust brew temp to based on bean, roast, profile
 

brianl Said:

This is definitely an interesting discussion and something i've been struggling with. I have a couple Questions.

Most of the stuff I get is single origin about medium roast. My brew temperature is around 200F and the current beans are about 7 days post roast but the issues i mention are the days leading up to the 7 so definitely not stale.

I have been having a 'early blonding' issue and I seem to only be able to get about 20g in a 30 second pull before heavy blonding. I have no idea how people get the equivalent of 50g (~2oz from their brews). I have tried using 16g in a 15g basket, 18 and 17 in a 18 basket, and 22 and 21 in a triple basket (doesnt have a max measurement but i'd say around 23/24).

Now, is the best practice usually to check the puck right out of the portafilter and make sure there isn't a 'screw indention' on the top of the puck from the shower screen or does this not matter as much?

I have also tried to lower the brew temperature but not sure how that affects blonding.

I don't know many roasters that roast that far these days. Redbird being one of the only i've be able to find (def nothing local). Is this also a big factor?

Posted January 24, 2014 link

Well I'm using a single boiler machine and now that I've experimented with ridtretto's there's a pretty big taste difference between pulling a 1 oz ristretto and a 2 oz espresso shot. I know for a fact that the temp drop from the smaller size boiler on my Silvia plays a role.  As for the puck indentation It's fine as long as you don't move the portafilter once you lock it in.  I plan to get rid of mine very soon just in case.    To prolong blonding I know pressure profiling helps huge.
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,311
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri Jan 24, 2014, 11:53am
Subject: Re: How to know what to adjust brew temp to based on bean, roast, profile
 

Measure and adjust headspace by using the coin test(s) BEFORE -- not after -- extraction.  I suggest using the nickle and dime test.  In most machines -- and I think "most" includes both the Gaggia and Silvia -- a dime placed on a dry puck should leave a faint impression when the pf is locked in; but a nickle should leave a sharp impression.    

Any machine with a three way valve will suck the puck back against the screen after the shot, which means the post-extraction impression is completely meaningless -- as opposed to the almost totally meaningless impression on the post-extraction puck from a machine without a three way valve.

As a nearly universal rule of espresso improvement, post-extraction pucks have nothing to teach anyone about anything.  

Extraction dose/time/blonding problems can be difficult to solve.  Maybe there's someone who can give you THE right solution based on your description, but if so, it ain't me.  As a sort of generic cure for "too fast," you'll want to grind tighter, try different size baskets; and use a naked pf to learn important things about distribution.  Keep on tweaking.

BDL
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pstam
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pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,349
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sun Feb 16, 2014, 10:12am
Subject: Re: How to know what to adjust brew temp to based on bean, roast, profile
 

There are too many answers and some of them are too long and complicated.
Without reading all of those answers carefully, I would tell my own opinions about this problem.

Since the espresso brewing depands on not only the temperature but also the pressure, we generally do not modify the temperature because we can adjust the pressure, which is much easier.  The brewing result depands on the combined result of the temperature and the pressure, so we can get the good result by turning the pressure alone for the most cases.  Only if the water is not hot enough, we have to raise it.  Otherwise,we seldomly need to touch te temperature.

For different beans and roast, we normally only have to adjust the pressure or even only the amount of the coffee grounds.
I don't see the reason why to adjust accourding to different beans and roast.  If really need, adjust he amount of coffee grounds canbe enough for the most cases.

 
Peter in Beijing
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I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,842
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sun Feb 16, 2014, 12:42pm
Subject: Re: How to know what to adjust brew temp to based on bean, roast, profile
 

Rich, excellent mnemonic and summation, I am forever second guessing the correct sour/bitter directions, and now I can remember it easier, thanks :D

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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