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Pulling a light roasted shot
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Discussions > Espresso > General > Pulling a light...  
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
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Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2012, 11:21am
Subject: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

Has anyone trid pulling a light roast shot?  I like it because you get more of the beans natural flavor but I have noticed that unless you tamp like crazy the dryer grinds and pieces of chaff cause weak points in the puck.. Makes big mess.

I also noticed that Bridghead here in Ontario sells their espresso blend as a city roast.  I'm using a bottomless portafilter so I won't complain. cause the coffee is still great.

Currently pulling JBM city roast shots. AMAZING!
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
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Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
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Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Jul 16, 2012, 2:20pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

I guess it all depends on what you count as a light roast. I like a light city to city + depending on the bean. I never use coffee roasted dark enough for oil to show so I am not sure what you  are saying about "dryer grounds". There should not be chaff in the beans and I find that I have no odd or extra effort to grind/tamp for a shot. My pucks are solid and unless I do something wrong they are dry as well as pull nice and even. YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2012, 7:35pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

Burner0000 Said:

Has anyone trid pulling a light roast shot?  I like it because you get more of the beans natural flavor but I have noticed that unless you tamp like crazy the dryer grinds and pieces of chaff cause weak points in the puck.. Makes big mess.

Posted July 16, 2012 link

Like calblacksmith, I don't find special tamping is necessary to pull shots with light roasts. But since the coffee's cellular structure is less degraded in light roasts than in dark roasts, the coffee solubles are harder to extract, and a finer grind is required for a balanced shot.

It used to be that a finer grind necessarily went hand in hand with a smaller dose. So the conventional wisdom suggested something like this: if you're using 16g doses for medium roasts, drop down to 14g for light roasts, and raise your brew water temperature a couple degrees to improve solubility.

But nowadays many people have another trick up their sleeve -- extended preinfusion. When you preinfuse the puck at only ~3 bars pressure until espresso starts to drip out the bottom, one can grind finer than usual and still get a nicely flowing shot. So with the new pressure profiling machines like the Slayer, Strada and Hydra, or any home machine that allows 3 bar preinfusion, one can grind finer, dose normally, and pull reasonably balanced shots from light roasts.

Even with this technique, however, there are some very underdeveloped roasts that come out dry and tart. It's better to use those for drip coffee!

 
-AndyS
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,082
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Tue Jul 17, 2012, 4:49am
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

Yes you’re both right.  I noticed a difference in the Vienna roast JBM I pulled this morning. When I pulled the city roast I had the burrs almost touching.  calblacksmith I was referring to the bit of chaff left in the middle of the bean that doesn’t break off until the bean goes exothermic.   I also don't have a 3 way solenoid in my machine not to mention that it's a bottomless portafilter so I'm prone to more mess.  Andy I will try the preinfusion and see if anything changes.  Maybe I'm not grooming enough.
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
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Posted Tue Jul 17, 2012, 5:34am
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

IMHO tamping is no issue when pulling a shot from lighter roasts, but rather adjusting brewing temperature. Lighter roasts usually requiring lower temperatures.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Jul 17, 2012, 5:53am
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

I also use a bottomless PF exclusively and ~ city roasts. The tiny bit of chaff in the bean should not affect anything and I consider it just part of the grind. The 3 way valve only will help keep the puck dry and to bleed off pressure from the puck so you can take the PF off sooner without a mess, it should have no effect on the shot when pulled.

A good grind, a weighed dose and an even and consistent dispersal of grinds in the basket are much more important than tamping ever will be provided your tamp is even and level across the puck.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,082
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Tue Jul 17, 2012, 6:09am
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

Thanks guys!  

Sounds like I need to pay attn to grooming to get a cleaner shot.  Makes sence cause I have been trying other ways of leveling the grind b4 tamoing.  I also found that even without a 3 way valve I can just drain the left over water loating above the puck in the drip tray and tap the puck out with just a tad more to clean out of the basket.. Not an issue. :)
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,082
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Wed Jul 18, 2012, 6:04am
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

With a vienna roast I was able to pull a perfect shot this morning.  I spent time groomingbefore pulling the shot as well as pre infusion.
You guys were right. Thanks agin!
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Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,082
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Mon Aug 20, 2012, 10:20am
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

I have learned that light crema means an under extracted shot and too dark can mean an over extracted shot.  
Poor beans will result in poor taste and les crema.
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SteveRhinehart
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SteveRhinehart
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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Location: Syracuse, NY
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Espresso: 1970s La Pavoni Europiccola
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Roaster: Flavorwave/Stir Crazy
Posted Mon Aug 20, 2012, 2:38pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a light roasted shot
 

NobbyR Said:

IMHO tamping is no issue when pulling a shot from lighter roasts, but rather adjusting brewing temperature. Lighter roasts usually requiring lower temperatures.

Posted July 17, 2012 link

Interesting. I usually go hotter to balance out the inherent sourness and increase extraction slightly. Might need to try some more temp experiments!


Burner0000 Said:

I have learned that light crema means an under extracted shot and too dark can mean an over extracted shot.  
Poor beans will result in poor taste and les crema.

Posted August 20, 2012 link

I'm pretty sure it should be the opposite. Crema will lighten the longer the extraction goes on. However, I wouldn't use that as a barometer for overall extraction, unless you only use one type of coffee for your shots. Taste will tell you a lot more than crema will about the extraction.
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