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Discussions > Espresso > General > Hello...  
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jtferraro
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 49
Location: CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Starbucks (Saeco) Barista,...
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Aerobie Aero Press
Drip: Bonavita Thermal
Roaster: none
Posted Sun Jul 7, 2013, 4:15pm
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

D4F Said:

You can search pressure profiling and dimmer and see possible electronic solutions, also pressure or pump and PWM.  Sometimes it is best to use what you have and save for the next machine.  There are threads on Starbucks Barista and pressurized PF and un-pressurizing.

Posted July 7, 2013 link

Thanks.  What does 'PWM' stand for?  I agree re: sometimes it's best to use what you have and save for te next machine - don't want to get carried away here!
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,026
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sun Jul 7, 2013, 6:52pm
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

jtferraro Said:

SingleBoiler(DU?)

That's cool the Gaggia Classic comes with an OPV.  I like that said machine also utilizes a 58mm non-pressurized PF.  2 merits right there.  That said, I wish the steam wand wasn't the newer Pannarello style.  Am I correct that this can be seen as the steaming equivalent to the pressurized PF?  Does the Sylvia also come equipped with a OPV?

Assuming there are merits to a HX over a dual/double boiler (price?), and vice-versa (no compromise?)?

Thanks gang.  This is fun!

Posted July 7, 2013 link

Single Boiler Dual/Double Use where the boiler is the brew boiler and steam boiler, as opposed to dual boiler, or Hx.  

I would not equate the Pannarello arm to Pressurized, but cheaper and a try at easier steaming, not fake steam.

PMW pulse width modulated a way to modulate power.  You can look up PMW and power or pump, or pressure.  There is also a thread on PWM control of the element/heater to gain some control.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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jtferraro
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 49
Location: CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Starbucks (Saeco) Barista,...
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Aerobie Aero Press
Drip: Bonavita Thermal
Roaster: none
Posted Mon Jul 8, 2013, 9:09am
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

OK, now I'm beginning to question my machine!  Even if I upgrade my PF to a non-pressurized model, the machine will still be pushing out hot water @15 bar, correct?  Assuming so, this is too much pressure (9 is ideal?) and will keep extractions relatively short, thereby limiting the quality of shot produced?  Of course I realize this can be somewhat controlled via a finer grind and harder tamp, but would that still leave a lot to be desired re: shot quality?

Thanks
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CoffeeRon
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Eatonville, Wa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Mon Jul 8, 2013, 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

jtferraro Said:

OK, now I'm beginning to question my machine!  Even if I upgrade my PF to a non-pressurized model, the machine will still be pushing out hot water @15 bar, correct?  Assuming so, this is too much pressure (9 is ideal?) and will keep extractions relatively short, thereby limiting the quality of shot produced?  Of course I realize this can be somewhat controlled via a finer grind and harder tamp, but would that still leave a lot to be desired re: shot quality?

Thanks,

Posted July 8, 2013 link

Not that you can't get some drinkable cappuccinos with your Barista, and the mods mentioned above would help, but you are beginning to see the limitations you're dealing with. I would read the threads of other Barista owners and the mods they've done and maybe consider some of them yourself. Take your time and enjoy what you've got for now- don't get frustrated! Enjoy the journey.

Of course if you're ready for a step up we always like helping people spend their money :-)

                             Ron
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,026
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Jul 8, 2013, 7:11pm
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

So, back to square one?  You have a machine though not the greatest for even SBDU.  You need a grinder and you should get at minimum a Baratza Preciso Refurb.  The grinder fortunately will be useful with other machines when/if you upgrade.  If you get a different machine first, you will not benefit much without a grinder.

There are threads about your machine and other others not so very adjustable, at least easily adjustable.  Look at the EC155 thread.  The machine is adequate but yes, more difficult to use with a non-adjustable OPV.  That said, does the machine produce 15 bar at the puck?  Is its valve at the pump set lower?  Most vib pumps produce 15 bar and the wording often references that fact, 15 bar pump.  The valve may be set lower to be a safety outlet for the pump.

I think that you can get quality espresso, but you will work harder to do it than with all of the features, PID temperature adjustment, adjustable pressure, 3 way relief valve, non-pressurized PF...  Yes you will need a finer grind and probably tighter control of grind as the machine becomes a bit more difficult.  

If you are ready to upgrade, look at your budget and usage and read the introduction thread for information needed to get good advice.

I was on the phone too long from writing to posting so this is similar to CoffeeRon.  Guess you get similar ideas from two of us :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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CoffeeRon
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 757
Location: Eatonville, Wa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Mon Jul 8, 2013, 7:15pm
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

+1 on grinder first!
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jtferraro
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 49
Location: CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Starbucks (Saeco) Barista,...
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Aerobie Aero Press
Drip: Bonavita Thermal
Roaster: none
Posted Mon Jul 8, 2013, 8:07pm
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

Thanks guys.  Yes, I will definitely soon be purchasing a Precisio, as that's the priority.  How does the Gaggia Classic compare to my machine?  It's on sale for $379 and has the following advantages: 58mm non-pressurized PF, OPV (9 bar at grouphead?), and 3 way relief/solenoid valve.  Alternatively, I still like the thought of keeping my Barista and taking it as far as I can go (enjoying the journey).  My thoughts are more inline with deciding if purchasing a $60 non-pressurized PF and expensive 53mm RB tamper (guess I can still keep the handle) are worthwhile if I soon thereafter decide to upgrade my machine.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,026
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Mon Jul 8, 2013, 9:25pm
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

Will the Classic meet your needs?  It is not much of an upgrade unless you see it serving you for years. The Classic works for me as does the Preciso.  You will not likely be happy for long without a PID on an SBDU machine.  Ignorance is bliss and your bliss is gone :)

You should read and consider this.  

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/620441

Will you be happy with SBDU and does it meet your needs?

Sounds like you are between the Classic and and $60 on your machine.  The tamper needed either way, similar cost but different size.  If you "enjoy the journey" and that includes DIY, consider a PID on your machine that you can remove and reuse.  DIY PID for about $75 - 100.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,026
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Jul 9, 2013, 10:22am
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

Similarly

Click Here (coffeegeek.com)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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jtferraro
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 49
Location: CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Starbucks (Saeco) Barista,...
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Aerobie Aero Press
Drip: Bonavita Thermal
Roaster: none
Posted Thu Jul 11, 2013, 4:08am
Subject: Re: Hello coffeegeeks (newbie intro)...
 

OK, I'm back after reading through the links you provided.  Thank you!  

Will the Classic meet all my ultimate needs?  Likely not, but I'm not sure how 'into' this I'll get.  I wish the Classic's frothing wand was on a ball joint, like my Barista's (and would prefer if it wasn't Pannarello style).  You're right though - it's not 'enough' of an upgrade.  I think I'd like my next machine to offer the Classic's features and additionally be an HX or DB with an E61 brewhead (which I just read the history of).  It can't be monstrous machine since we have a relatively small house (built in 1940) and I don't want it to look like it's taking over the kitchen.  While I'd love direct plumbing, I don't know if it's feasible.  Would I be able to tap into my refridgerators cold water/ice line?  If so, perhaps I'd consider one of those machines that has a water resevoir but can also go the direct connect route.  Those smaller Alex and Quick Mill machines are nice.  Anyway... I still have a lot to learn and will keep my Barista for a while, trying to take it as far as it can go, without going overboard!

    -Jeff
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