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Espresso: General Discussion
Am I right, or am I wrong?
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Discussions > Espresso > General > Am I right, or...  
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
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Posted Tue May 21, 2013, 5:38pm
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

I think he is saying that you can have a bit of sharp citrus taste that is nice and refreshing and not have it make your face pucker up like sucking a lemon.

I am seeing more sharp citrus tastes in coffee.  I would call it third wave, I don't like sour face puckering coffee.  I think there is a fine line between the two.

 
Coffeenoobie

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pstam
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pstam
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Posted Tue May 21, 2013, 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

frcn Said:

"Trends" as reported in the media are very often driven by press releases by manufacturers, wholesalers and press agencies who look to drive sales. Imagine if Illy sent out a "new article" stating that their sales of light roasted coffee have risen 15% in the first quarter of 2013. it would send a ripple throughout the entire industry. Couldn't happen? Starbucks did it with their "Blond Roast" which a ridiculous serious of releases including a video featuring their master roaster. It was created to draw in the masses who are, for the most part, ignorant of nearly all things coffee except how to drink it. The roast level was fairly much the same as I (and MANY others) have been roasting coffee for espresso for over a decade.

Posted May 21, 2013 link

I think that I can understand it.  That is quite normal in this world.

frcn Said:

So we can say that there is a trend towards sour coffee, or we can see it as a trend towards people finally tasting what coffee has to offer. I have had some really great light roasts that bring out delightful citrus acidity that tastes like unsweetened oranges. There is an huge difference between that and "sour" coffee. If I had a coffee roasting company that "specialized" in buying low quality, inexpensive beans and over-roasting them to kill the bad flavors, I would market it as "the way coffee is meant to be" and release press statements about the "trend" towards sour coffee.

So two lessons here: Don't believe what you read about trends and high acid coffee doesn't have to be sour.

Posted May 21, 2013 link

I wonder that if any feedback from your local market about the responds of those acid and fruity coffee?

Another question is that our local coffee people suggest the lighter roast so that the coffee not only acid (not sour) but also almost no coffee tastes at all.  Is that similar to your experience or something different?
Or, asked by some people, what is the coffee tastes?  Is it bitter, chocolate, burnt, and some others, but none of coffee tastes itself?  That is to say, does the coffee taste exist? Or people simply recognize it as bitter, chocolate, burnt and so on?

 
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Frost
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Frost
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
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Posted Wed May 22, 2013, 8:57am
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

I think it is no more complicated than ripening fruit; from sour green to tart,  sweet, syrup, to overripe.

For coffee there is a middle roast range where Balance, Character, Complexity, are optimum.
Depending on Origin, Roaster and Brewer to bring forth the optimum Character, and this is subject to wide interpretation. (There's also the issue of masking defect. Most coffee is not specialty grade.)

Why go to the extremes of burnt ash or sour green?
Depending on the bean, I find the best espresso roast development somewhere between City+ and Full City+.
From a complete first crack to the first snaps of second crack. From a balanced tart fruit through chocolate to spicy.  I've never been a fan of resinous, tarry, ashy roasts.  At the light end, I want at least a complete first crack to clear the green taste.
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Iluvdabean
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Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
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Posted Wed May 22, 2013, 9:17am
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

Peter I think if anything the interest in espresso is on the rise. Shops that sell these machines are doing fine.
The exposure that Starbucks has brought to the general population about espresso is a factor also. Even if
they over roast their beans they have increased awareness over all. Basing your conclusion on information online
may also need to be considered because you can find information to support almost any view it seems.
As far as extraction methods whether its an espresso machine, pour over,French press or a nice drip machine
if the beans arenít of good quality and roasted correctly ( this can be subjective ) then the coffee coming
from the method of extraction will also suffer. When you factor in correct technique, that is correct dosing and water temperature,
to name a few things the window potential for bad coffee widens.
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Frost
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Frost
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,105
Location: Sierra
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Venus
Grinder: Lelit PL53
Roaster: Poppery I w/variac, MET, BT
Posted Thu May 23, 2013, 8:50am
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

pstam Said:

Or, asked by some people, what is the coffee tastes?  Is it bitter, chocolate, burnt, and some others, but none of coffee tastes itself?  That is to say, does the coffee taste exist? Or people simply recognize it as bitter, chocolate, burnt and so on?

Posted May 21, 2013 link


http://www.sweetmarias.com/tastewheel2.jpg
http://www.sweetmarias.com/tastewheel1.jpg

The 'Coffee tastes' can be any/all of the above and more...

In terms of the taste range from very light to very dark roast, I want to make a clear point that all of the 'coffee tastes' are a product of the roasting process. Try brewing (infusing?) some green coffee if you really want to taste the 'origin character'.  You can follow the roast flavor progression from light to dark (loosely) on the taste wheel.

Coffee flavor transformation in roasting, the range and complexity of flavor, is truly unique and magical.
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