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Am I right, or am I wrong?
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Discussions > Espresso > General > Am I right, or...  
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pstam
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Posted Mon May 20, 2013, 8:07pm
Subject: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

Looking around Chinese market and also the forums here, also the Australian market through the internet description, more and more people went to the drip coffee, pour over, siphon, French press and so on.

       The beans are roasted lighter and lighter, some people even announced that their coffee had no coffee tastes or bitter at all but only the fruit tastes of sour.  It wasn't coffee, but more like fruit juice, as they described.

       We could even find in some books that we are in the end of the time for espresso and start of lighter roasted and many different sourness single origin beans for drip coffee, or even for espresso.

       In the past, people hate the coffee which if it is too sour.  But right now, those coffee people love the sour coffee, but I do not know if the clients can accept it or not.  I do doubt.

 
Peter in Beijing
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dana_leighton
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Posted Mon May 20, 2013, 8:29pm
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

Hi Peter.

I think you're both right and wrong.

Some of my very favorite espresso shots are single-origin coffees. Although I love a nice bittersweet chocolate cherry butterscotch toffee espresso blend shot (Redbird right now), I also love a single-origin shot for contrast. Take for example, a great Costa Rica Terrazu shot. It's true that many of these single-origin shots are imbalanced, often in the direction of citrus or fruit, but the imbalance is something I look forward to. I have had some shots that were lemony or grapefruity, but amazing in complexity and depth.

I agree that a very light loast is not usually (never?) suitable for espresso. But I'm talking straight city roast. But, many of these coffees taken to city+ or full city will explode with amazing flavors.

Of course, cupping roasts are a whole other beast, but that's not what you're talking about.

In terms of non-espresso, it's true that more of us are finding interesting ways to brew coffee and the lighter roasts with intense fruit and citrus or floral flavors really shine in drip/vac/press methods.

 
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pstam
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pstam
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Posted Mon May 20, 2013, 8:55pm
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

Besides what I said above, I would ask a question out of the topic.
       That is whether people call those lighter roast and fruity tastes are so-called "the third wave".  I heard it from many Chinese coffee people but it seems different from the talking years ago by Nick Cho and others.

 
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pstam
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Posted Mon May 20, 2013, 9:00pm
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

dana_leighton Said:

Hi Peter.

......

In terms of non-espresso, it's true that more of us are finding interesting ways to brew coffee and the lighter roasts with intense fruit and citrus or floral flavors really shine in drip/vac/press methods.

Posted May 20, 2013 link


May I sai that your opinion is similar to those who do not care much about the coffee tastes, but mostly the fruity, citrus, and/or floral flavors?

 
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NobbyR
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Posted Mon May 20, 2013, 11:56pm
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

I don't think that espresso is on the downfall. It's just that after decades of being exposed to stale drip coffee and the likes, people are discovering that it's not a certain way of preparation that is important for high quality coffee, i.e. espresso, but rather using freshly roasted and ground beans for any kind of brewing method. And as we all know, that can also mean using different roasts.

 
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pstam
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Posted Tue May 21, 2013, 5:31am
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

I don't know if I asked u the question in a proper way or not.  It seems that what I heard is close to your opinion, more or less.  Is that right?

 
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frcn
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Posted Tue May 21, 2013, 8:11am
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

"Trends" as reported in the media are very often driven by press releases by manufacturers, wholesalers and press agencies who look to drive sales. Imagine if Illy sent out a "new article" stating that their sales of light roasted coffee have risen 15% in the first quarter of 2013. it would send a ripple throughout the entire industry. Couldn't happen? Starbucks did it with their "Blond Roast" which a ridiculous serious of releases including a video featuring their master roaster. It was created to draw in the masses who are, for the most part, ignorant of nearly all things coffee except how to drink it. The roast level was fairly much the same as I (and MANY others) have been roasting coffee for espresso for over a decade.

So we can say that there is a trend towards sour coffee, or we can see it as a trend towards people finally tasting what coffee has to offer. I have had some really great light roasts that bring out delightful citrus acidity that tastes like unsweetened oranges. There is an huge difference between that and "sour" coffee. If I had a coffee roasting company that "specialized" in buying low quality, inexpensive beans and over-roasting them to kill the bad flavors, I would market it as "the way coffee is meant to be" and release press statements about the "trend" towards sour coffee.

So two lessons here: Don't believe what you read about trends and high acid coffee doesn't have to be sour.

 
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pstam
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pstam
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Posted Tue May 21, 2013, 9:01am
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

frcn Said:

......    high acid coffee doesn't have to be sour.

Posted May 21, 2013 link

I do not really understand this words, and I suppose that they are important for me to understand what you said above.  Can u explain it in other words?

Maybe, "Acid" is the chemical components as acid, and the "sour" means some bad tastes.  May I understand it in this way?

 
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barkingburro
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Posted Tue May 21, 2013, 10:40am
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

pstam Said:

I do not really understand this words, and I suppose that they are important for me to understand what you said above.  Can u explain it in other words?

Maybe, "Acid" is the chemical components as acid, and the "sour" means some bad tastes.  May I understand it in this way?

Posted May 21, 2013 link

That is my understanding as well.  When I discuss acidity with others, there is an understanding that it can be fruity or sour, or both.  The word "sour" generally indicates undesirable flavors, as in unsweetened lemons.  That's why when people sometimes praise coffee that has a lemony taste, they'll say it tastes like "Meyer lemons", a sweeter type of lemon.

I take a middle position in this discussion.  I want my coffee to have a fruity acidity that suggests berries or oranges or rich flavors like peaches or plums.  But if the coffee does not exhibit any chocolate, preferably with other roasty flavors, such as caramel or nuttiness, I will not like it as much.  I've had coffee that tasted and smelled very close to stewed peaches.  It was amazing....once.  As an intellectual exercise, I was glad to be able to try such an extraordinary single origin.  But I would not buy it again.  I want depth and complexity, which includes fruit and chocolate and other nuances in a balanced proportion.  That's why I often blend 2/3 of a lighter roast with 1/3 of a darker roast to satisfy my cravings.

 
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steamer
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Posted Tue May 21, 2013, 10:46am
Subject: Re: Am I right, or am I wrong?
 

I think people finally found out the SB is really burnt coffee and are tasting more lighter or normal roasted coffee. Take JBM whose notes are citrus, grapefruit. Or Kona, very light and creamy.
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