JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Feb 6, 2013, 8:00pm Subject: Re: Bialetti Brikka: getting that elusive crema
coffeeapostle Said:
Forums are funny places.
I myself don't use any definition, because as far as I'm aware, there is no official governing body out there that states how an espresso has to be made in order for it to be called "espresso".
But if you really want to get technical, I guess what the Brikka makes is technically called "moka". It makes no sense to me getting into these technicalities though, and whether or not it's called moka or espresso doesn't really make any difference to me.
As I said, I no longer feel the need to compare the drink I make with the Brikka with the drink I get at a café, unless I'm asked how it does compare, which is pretty well, if not better. It's a superb coffee making device in its own right . . .
No one has said that you can't get a good cup of coffee with a Brikka. You certainly can! You can also get good coffee using a siphon, a press pot, or a pourover. But none are espresso.
coffeeapostle Said:
. . . the whole point of this thread was not to start a philosophical debate on the definition of espresso and the laws of crema
I stand corrected. How did I not come across this!
So, should we call it tea?
Call it mud if you like! Ultimately, words are just words. I guess I just call it espresso (along with pretty much anyone else who uses the Brikka?) because a) to me I can't tell any discernable difference in flavour to espresso from a machine, b) because if I called it moka, people would likely say, "Oh, where's the chocolate?", and last but by no means least... c) because Bialetti themselves call it espresso...?
No one has said that you can't get a good cup of coffee with a Brikka. You certainly can! You can also get good coffee using a siphon, a press pot, or a pourover. But none are espresso.
And I wasn't suggesting that anybody has. For my taste, none of those quoted methods really float my boat. And what's more, the longer brewing time leads to more caffeine extraction, which I really don't like. With my espresso, or should I say moka, I don't get this nasty kick. But coffee is a highly personal thing.
No one is trying to debate you.
If no one was trying to debate me, we would not be having this conversation. Debate is actually good, but I was hoping not to have to debate these particular areas.
And your expertise is . . . what, exactly? How many years has it taken you to develop this vast set of knowledge?
What makes you think I've developed a vast set of knowledge? Because I dared to have the cheek to stray onto a coffee forum and utter my advice in a remotely eloquent manner? If you read back a few posts you'll find that I said I worked a little bit in a café and the Brikka is currently my one and only espresso (whoops, did it again!) making device. So I think it goes without saying that my expertise is minimal, and I would never try to fool people into thinking otherwise. But I like to think I'm a fast learner, and have the humility to share my honest opinions whilst at the same time listening to others'.
Well, a brikka doesn't taste at all like as espresso, but it can taste awfully good!
A couple of months ago I'd have totally agreed with you. But now I'd have to strongly (forgive the pun) disagree. But as none of us have any real way of proving this on paper then I guess we'll just have to put it down to our own taste buds. Anyway, have you tried the methods I've shown? I'd be interested to hear your feedback on them.
No one has ever said it takes £1,000's (or $1,000's or €1,000's) to make great espresso at home.
You're probably right. In fact what the heck, you are. But as I also said previously, if I was going to buy an espresso machine I'd want to be able to pressure profile with it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these facilities don't come cheap. But hey, not everybody needs this facility to appreciate their coffee. I just like to be able to monkey around with things.
It certainly can be. There is no debate about that.
Great, we agree at least on something! :)
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At the end of the day, all I'm really trying to achieve here is to get people to see the bigger picture and not get bogged down in the philosophy of it. I had hoped people would share their techniques, and maybe even videos. Since there are videos like this one without important questions being answered...
I used to have a Bialetti Brikka. I did something very similar to, but not exactly the same, as you do. It was very good, but it wasn't espresso to my taste. Not by any means.
coffeeapostle Senior Member Joined: 5 Feb 2013 Posts: 18 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Bialetti Brikka 2 cup Grinder: Krupps GVX231
Posted Thu Feb 7, 2013, 2:32am Subject: Re: Bialetti Brikka: getting that elusive crema
If I had a decent espresso machine, then a Brikka would merely be a cute little now-and-again alternative, or an after dinner novelty.
I've found that by reducing the water quantities to way below the line, I can strengthen the flavour of the coffee, and I can't deny that it makes it extremely intense, miles more so than a regular moka pot. I guess filling it to the recommended line would give you what I guess would be equivalent to a "lungo".
What machine do you have?
One man's meat is another man's poison. ~Lucretius
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