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Caffeine x time
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Discussions > Espresso > General > Caffeine x time  
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steveL
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Joined: 7 Nov 2012
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Location: san francisco
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Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:33am
Subject: Caffeine x time
 

I like what used to be called a "short pull." (May still be.) Means don't let the pump run too long, just seven or eight seconds, then off. You don't get much, but what you get is real good.  My question: how much caffeine is foregone by pulling a short shot? In other words, if you drew a curve of caffeine over time, what would it look like? Anyone know? How long is your ideal pull? Assumes you've ground and packed just right. (I use a Baby Gaggia, and burr grinder.)
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KcPhilthy
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Joined: 8 Nov 2012
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Location: Kansas City
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Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:37pm
Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
 

I do not have an answer for your caffeine question. BUT!

As for the "Ideal shot" or "Ideal Time", there is no correct answer to that.
It all depends on the bean / Roast/ And the characteristics you are trying to pull out of it.

For example:
I am a barista at "The Roasterie, and for our standard espresso blend "Super Tuscan" we would dose out 22-24 grams of coffee and tamp and pull for about 28-33 Sec for an Ounce and a half shot.

Then we have a El Salvador Reserve that when loaded up we dose about the same but as far as the pull if you were to pull at our standard of 28 seconds a lot of people would be satisfied witht he outcome, and what they are tasting. But if you let the full extraction happen it will take about 60 seconds and the difference is mind blowing so much more flavor.


So after this rant the answer is! Go with the flow and experiment what works best with you!

Hope this helped some!
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:47pm
Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
 

If it is just for you, what you like is the only thing that matters.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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upandatom
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Joined: 18 Dec 2005
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Expertise: I like coffee

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Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:56pm
Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
 

KcPhilthy Said:

For example:
I am a barista at "The Roasterie, and for our standard espresso blend "Super Tuscan" we would dose out 22-24 grams of coffee and tamp and pull for about 28-33 Sec for an Ounce and a half shot.
!

Posted November 9, 2012 link

I live in KC and have picked up Super Tuscan from The Roasterie.  Thanks for the tip on the extraction parameters, OI'll give this a shot next time I order some.  I've emailed them about putting some suggested extraction parameters up on their website, hope to see it there someday.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
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Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
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Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:36am
Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
 

SHORT is a liquid not time function. YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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MerleApAmber
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Joined: 13 Nov 2012
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Location: Atlanta
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Espresso: Breville BES900
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Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:46pm
Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
 

You know, someone somewhere some when has likely performed that experiment. If, as in another conversation, one premises pulling espresso is as like a pressure chromatography. As such maybe the reason no one seems to know or offer answer has more to do with trade secrets and not so much "I dunno." Otherwise it is a very good question.

I did appreciate the response about drawing longer than canon; opens a new line of interest and experience.

Oh, as another nave outsider, I wonder what Illy has published on the matter.
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Frost
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Frost
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Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012, 8:13pm
Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
 

MerleApAmber Said:

You know, someone somewhere some when has likely performed that experiment...........

............, I wonder what Illy has published on the matter.

Posted December 10, 2012 link

On page 299 of 'Espresso Coffee'  is figure 8.4 'fractionated extraction of caffeine during brewing a ristretto.'

It looks about linear at the start; from 8ml to 16ml caffeine about doubles from about 18mg to 38mg.
From around 20ml/45mg caffeine extraction has flattened considerably.
(By 32ml the caffeine is at  58mg, 40ml/64mg)
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steveL
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Joined: 7 Nov 2012
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Location: san francisco
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: yes
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Vac Pot: no
Drip: yes
Roaster: no
Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 10:18am
Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
 

Thank you! So when about half a jigger (shot--for alchoholic beverages) of espresso is pulled the caffeine is mostly extracted, I gather. (20 ML = about 2/3 of an ounce; a jigger = 1.5 ounce). That seems right to me, and is welcome news, too. I aim for optimal taste, but without losing too much caffeine.
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MerleApAmber
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Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 203
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900
Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto
Vac Pot: Yuma
Drip: bah-humbug
Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 8:51pm
Subject: Re: Caffeine x time "Espresso Coffee"
 

So that's what my 90 dollar buy in at Amazon would have got me?
Sad part of it, second consumer review note; says they'd waited until a kindle edition came out and bought it for cheaper - no such animal there today folks. And best used price is still over 60?   I wonder if the library system still works...

Glad the OP got the information. And thank you Gary! It is good information to have stashed back.
-Chris
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