steveL Senior Member Joined: 7 Nov 2012 Posts: 2 Location: san francisco Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: yes Grinder: yes Vac Pot: no Drip: yes Roaster: no
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:33am Subject: Caffeine x time
I like what used to be called a "short pull." (May still be.) Means don't let the pump run too long, just seven or eight seconds, then off. You don't get much, but what you get is real good. My question: how much caffeine is foregone by pulling a short shot? In other words, if you drew a curve of caffeine over time, what would it look like? Anyone know? How long is your ideal pull? Assumes you've ground and packed just right. (I use a Baby Gaggia, and burr grinder.)
KcPhilthy Senior Member Joined: 8 Nov 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Kansas City Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Variety Grinder: Red Rooster (Mannual) Drip: V60
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 12:37pm Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
I do not have an answer for your caffeine question. BUT!
As for the "Ideal shot" or "Ideal Time", there is no correct answer to that. It all depends on the bean / Roast/ And the characteristics you are trying to pull out of it.
For example: I am a barista at "The Roasterie, and for our standard espresso blend "Super Tuscan" we would dose out 22-24 grams of coffee and tamp and pull for about 28-33 Sec for an Ounce and a half shot.
Then we have a El Salvador Reserve that when loaded up we dose about the same but as far as the pull if you were to pull at our standard of 28 seconds a lot of people would be satisfied witht he outcome, and what they are tasting. But if you let the full extraction happen it will take about 60 seconds and the difference is mind blowing so much more flavor.
So after this rant the answer is! Go with the flow and experiment what works best with you!
upandatom Senior Member Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 4 Location: Kansas City, MO Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Carezza Grinder: Tranquilo
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:56pm Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
KcPhilthy Said:
For example: I am a barista at "The Roasterie, and for our standard espresso blend "Super Tuscan" we would dose out 22-24 grams of coffee and tamp and pull for about 28-33 Sec for an Ounce and a half shot. !
I live in KC and have picked up Super Tuscan from The Roasterie. Thanks for the tip on the extraction parameters, OI'll give this a shot next time I order some. I've emailed them about putting some suggested extraction parameters up on their website, hope to see it there someday.
MerleApAmber Senior Member Joined: 13 Nov 2012 Posts: 175 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES900 Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto Vac Pot: Yuma Drip: bah-humbug Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:46pm Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
You know, someone somewhere some when has likely performed that experiment. If, as in another conversation, one premises pulling espresso is as like a pressure chromatography. As such maybe the reason no one seems to know or offer answer has more to do with trade secrets and not so much "I dunno." Otherwise it is a very good question.
I did appreciate the response about drawing longer than canon; opens a new line of interest and experience.
Oh, as another nave outsider, I wonder what Illy has published on the matter.
On page 299 of 'Espresso Coffee' is figure 8.4 'fractionated extraction of caffeine during brewing a ristretto.'
It looks about linear at the start; from 8ml to 16ml caffeine about doubles from about 18mg to 38mg. From around 20ml/45mg caffeine extraction has flattened considerably. (By 32ml the caffeine is at 58mg, 40ml/64mg)
steveL Senior Member Joined: 7 Nov 2012 Posts: 2 Location: san francisco Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: yes Grinder: yes Vac Pot: no Drip: yes Roaster: no
Posted Tue Dec 11, 2012, 10:18am Subject: Re: Caffeine x time
Thank you! So when about half a jigger (shot--for alchoholic beverages) of espresso is pulled the caffeine is mostly extracted, I gather. (20 ML = about 2/3 of an ounce; a jigger = 1.5 ounce). That seems right to me, and is welcome news, too. I aim for optimal taste, but without losing too much caffeine.
MerleApAmber Senior Member Joined: 13 Nov 2012 Posts: 175 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES900 Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto Vac Pot: Yuma Drip: bah-humbug Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 8:51pm Subject: Re: Caffeine x time "Espresso Coffee"
So that's what my 90 dollar buy in at Amazon would have got me? Sad part of it, second consumer review note; says they'd waited until a kindle edition came out and bought it for cheaper - no such animal there today folks. And best used price is still over 60? I wonder if the library system still works...
Glad the OP got the information. And thank you Gary! It is good information to have stashed back. -Chris
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