jsantaniello Senior Member Joined: 7 Jan 2012 Posts: 14 Location: Norway Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 5:37am Subject: This is how I like my espresso... Am I crazy? ;-)
After finally getting a decent setup (Rocky and Silvia), and being able to experiment with consistency, I have determined that I like:
2 oz including foam 17g grind 10kg tamp 19 second brew Beans with high percentage robusta (60%+) like Lavazza Gran Crema and Miscela d'Oro.
I like pretty much whatever I get when on vacation in Italy, but everything I get here in Norway has a "fruity" taste (at best) that is unpleasantly tart or sour.
I prefer the woody taste I get when I do it.
If I ever go to a good cafe, what would be a way to identify or describe the sort of thing I like?
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 9:39am Subject: Re: This is how I like my espresso... Am I crazy? ;-)
According to what I have heard, the Robusta was originally added to Italian coffee during bad economic times because it increased crema when added to cheaper coffee, and it was cheap itself. It also enhances the crema when added to stale coffee. In as high of a percentage as in the blends you quoted, many do not prefer the taste, and less the aftertaste. The aroma of smouldering inner tubes comes to mind.
If my memory serves, 17 grams is a lot of coffee for a Silvia stock basket. The rest of your figures reflect that- a relatively light tamp and fast flow. Of course, it all depends on how those are being measured. What scale to measure the tamp (which is not at all important), and if the gram scale has the capability of reading to tenths of a gram.
jsantaniello Senior Member Joined: 7 Jan 2012 Posts: 14 Location: Norway Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 10:31am Subject: Re: This is how I like my espresso... Am I crazy? ;-)
The tamp is "eyeballed" after a few calibration attempts using a digital bath-scale.
The 17g is based on volume (and after a while counting while grinding), after a few tests with a borrowed scale that did show tenths.
No inner-tube smell here! Maybe for laughs I'll try a cheaper coffee with high robusta content to see what that is like.
I got my Silvia used, so I don't know if it's a stock basket. But it does say RANCILIO and some numbers on the underside. I'm grinding 4 stops up from my zero-point, so perhaps the volume of the 17g is smaller and thus fits.
When I try other beans, I never like the taste, so I can't really tell if I'm doing it "right" so when I serve friends, I just do it my way. But I'd like to be able to offer a more conventional brew for visitors as well.
When I do a 15g, 3 oz, 25 second brew it ends up tasting watery and frequently sour to me, almost like from a Moka made with filter coffee.
Well there's your problem, 3oz from 15g is crazy high volume.
Modern American standards would tend to pull no more than 1.5oz from 15g of coffee, if that. The cafe at which I work pulls about 1oz from about 20g of coffee, though this is crazy low volume.
I tend to think of 1.5-1.75oz from 18-20g coffee as fairly "normal" for a modern double shot. And anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe .75-1oz from 7g of coffee is fairly normal for an Italian single shot.
heatgunroast Senior Member Joined: 10 Feb 2003 Posts: 360 Location: NYC Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Dalla Corte Grinder: Mazzer Mini; Zass, Baratza... Vac Pot: Royal Balance Brewer (wanna... Drip: Various press and pour-overs Roaster: Heatgun, Dogbowl
Posted Tue Jun 12, 2012, 3:37pm Subject: Re: This is how I like my espresso... Am I crazy? ;-)
Your question is a little like asking if it's OK to like heavily-cooked, deeply-fried oysters: Yah, but that's not what oysters are all about, and if you hate oysters, try McNuggets. It's fine to like what you like, but consider that palates can change and should change. Consider that if great numbers of coffee aficionados disdain heavy robusta and seek out the vast and subtle variety of acidy fruits, essences of flowers, and even an occasional sweet-tart citrus, you might be missing something. Many newbies ask for recommendations for "chocolaty" sweet or caramel roasts---the comfort flavors of espresso. After awhile they are able to achieve that goal, but also seem to get a little bored with it. So they move on (without quitting their appreciation of their early inclinations.) What you describe: 2 oz including foam 17g grind 10kg tamp 19 second brew Beans with high percentage robusta (60%+) like Lavazza Gran Crema and Miscela d'Oro. and woody ----isn't much like coffee I'm familiar with in Italy.
jsantaniello Senior Member Joined: 7 Jan 2012 Posts: 14 Location: Norway Expertise: Just starting
Posted Wed Jun 13, 2012, 12:03am Subject: Re: This is how I like my espresso... Am I crazy? ;-)
Thanks for the observations and comments everyone.
The 3 oz, 25 sec thing was something I tried when searching the Internet for what I should be doing. Left to my own devices, before I started trying to be systematic, I just filled the basket, scraped it off, tamped, and brewed until my cup was comfortably filled and/or it started to blond. After a while I got it to taste passable, but didn't really like it, so tried to find out how to really do it, and thus this 3 oz discovery. So my earlier experiments and what I''ve settled on aren't completely out of the ordinary at least in terms of coffee and liquid volume, at least.
I like the oyster analogy! I always get a kick out of a spot-on analogy. And that is a very nice thought; that my tastes may evolve, and I may LIKE things I don't have an appreciation for now. Hadn't thought of that!
But I suppose I should clarify: I like both the way I do it, AND what I get by default in Italy. They are certainly not the same. Everything else seems overbearingly fruity. So how can I achieve what even at Autogrill is the norm?
sure, logically, based on the 7, 14, 21g basket progression, but they're not all on that continuum: my Italian-designed, Italian-made home machine (a lever) has as its smallest basket roughly 12g (depending on how you pack it) and I typically pull .75, depending on crema. It's designed for a ristretto-type shot. After having .75 to maximally 1 oz shots (based on its chamber size) from 12g, anything less feels watery to me.
BeanLink Senior Member Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Toronto, Ontario Expertise: Professional
Posted Thu Jun 28, 2012, 1:32pm Subject: Re: This is how I like my espresso... Am I crazy? ;-)
I'd say you're crazy, but if it's what you prefer, then go for it.
Maybe the sour you taste from those places is actually the acidity showing through in coffee, either that or it is largely underextracted.
Why is there always such an emphasis on tamp pressure. Focus on an even and level distribution over anything. As long as you are tamping each time in a consistent manner and have adjusted your grind accordingly, it doesn't matter.
I used a VST 18g basket at work and the volume of coffee varies depending on how it is dialed in.
Posted Sun Jul 8, 2012, 5:49pm Subject: Re: This is how I like my espresso... Am I crazy? ;-)
To my experience asking people to make coffee the way you like, is a waste of time. I just go to a shop order the coffee they make, Double. If I like it I am lucky but if it is gross then that is unfortunate for me!
I have found the best thing to do is just do not pay and have coffee made for me haha
I love a tripple ristretto, no milk and no sugar! Just bliss. If I asked anybody in my town for this they would look at me like I was alien haha
I have the same rig as you, I need upgrade
"A good cup of coffee starts with a seedling." Snaggle.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 