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My entrance in to the coffee world.
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Discussions > Espresso > General > My entrance in...  
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TheSunInsideYou
Senior Member
TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Sat May 26, 2012, 5:53pm
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

cappuccinoboy Said:

false and misleading...(although often true)

Posted May 26, 2012 link

...I'm confused. If it's often true, then how is it false and misleading? Wouldn't that just make it accurate?

-Dave-
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,684
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, Preciso/Esatto, KyM...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sat May 26, 2012, 6:28pm
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

TheSunInsideYou Said:

...I'm confused. If it's often true, then how is it false and misleading? Wouldn't that just make it accurate?

-Dave-

Posted May 26, 2012 link

+1.
But we are OT here.
Back on topic please...whatever that now is! LOL

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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cappuccinoboy
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 798
Location: MILANO
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Milano pod, Milano fully...
Grinder: grind on demand
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 7:15am
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

TheSunInsideYou Said:

...I'm confused. If it's often true, then how is it false and misleading? Wouldn't that just make it accurate?

-Dave-

Posted May 26, 2012 link

To say that industrially roasted and packaged coffee is stale, period, is false and misleading because industrial packaging does work, and reputable roasters have built their successfull business on quality and consistency, still there is a lot of low quality coffee that is beeing marketed and sold at rock bottom prices that leave many bad mouths (and it may not be at rock bottom prices to the consumer, so always make sure to buy from a reputable supplier...).
In a market situation controlled by crudist and where best crops are bought in advance by big roasters and only marginal crops are letf available to micro roasters who have to pay anyway premium prices, I have utmost respect for the good artisans delivering freshness as biggest increased value, but that is a marginal market .
Sorry to have confused you, I must agree that I put it confusing and that happened because I was trying to concede to Rob.
I always stated that the real  art in coffee is making blends and guarantee consistency year in year out with varying crops and that can only be done if you are properly equipped, of course freshness is an essential part of consistency and quality.
Ciao, Pietro
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TheSunInsideYou
Senior Member
TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 7:34am
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

cappuccinoboy Said:

To say that industrially roasted and packaged coffee is stale, period, is false and misleading because industrial packaging does work, and reputable roasters have built their successfull business on quality and consistency, still there is a lot of low quality coffee that is beeing marketed and sold at rock bottom prices that leave many bad mouths (and it may not be at rock bottom prices to the consumer, so always make sure to buy from a reputable supplier...).
In a market situation controlled by crudist and where best crops are bought in advance by big roasters and only marginal crops are letf available to micro roasters who have to pay anyway premium prices, I have utmost respect for the good artisans delivering freshness as biggest increased value, but that is a marginal market .
Sorry to have confused you, I must agree that I put it confusing and that happened because I was trying to concede to Rob.
I always stated that the real  art in coffee is making blends and guarantee consistency year in year out with varying crops and that can only be done if you are properly equipped, of course freshness is an essential part of consistency and quality.
Ciao, Pietro

Posted May 27, 2012 link

I still feel like you're arguing with yourself, but as was just stated, let's respect the OP and get back on topic. This is a fruitless debate.

-Dave-
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Nicko999
Senior Member


Joined: 7 May 2012
Posts: 13
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Breville Smart
Drip: Moccamaster
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 9:42am
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

I waited to reply to this post as I could see some debates starting!

I'd like to start by saying thanks for all replies, I have enjoyed reading them all, and learnt plenty to keep me going now! So as someone with no knowledge, I'll post my response which is kind of a conclusion from what knowledge I have gained from here. I don't think I can reply personally to all as I would go on forever!

As I knew before buying the grinder is important, and I am happy with mine, it does the job for me. I can grind fine enough to block the machine which sounds as though it is a good thing. I am now learning to find the correct setting for different days or beans very quickly so as not to waste too much coffee! I am lucky as I live in a kind of eco apartment, where the temperature and humidity is kept constant through a ventilation system, although I have noticed a difference in the coffee if I adjust the conditions inside.. I found this fascinating that something so small can play a part in making coffee!

I have learnt to keep a consistent amount of grinds every time, this has helped massively. I do not focus so much on tamping now, but have created my own "technique" that I follow every time and keeps consistency for me.

Now the beans... I see there is much discussion on this, so it is hard for me to draw a conclusion, but I agree, personal taste is important, but freshly roasted beans seem to be the key to the best coffee overall. As I mentioned, I ordered some beans with a sell by date with my machine. They are from Italy, and I was pleased with results as for me, it was my first attempt at real coffee. I am waiting for my freshly roasted beans to arrive, hopefuly tomorrow, so I will post my thoughts after trying these out, I am very excited!

I have decided I have to compromise with the fresh beans, I can't justify ordering every week from any of the roasters here in Norway, at 100nok ($16 -$17) per 250g bag, I am not yet enough of a coffee geek to spend this much, I will put emphasis on the "yet"! However, I believe if I stick to my order of 1.25kg monthly, putting half in the freezer, I will be satisfied with the results. Perhaps, as I become better at making coffee, I will begin to notice the difference and appreciate the very fresh coffee more. If I use over my 1.25kg I can order from Oslo to keep me going.

Part of the excitement of all this for me is the learning, experimentation and trying out new types of coffee to see which I prefer. I also enjoy having guests round and making them my new coffee! Whether it be cappuccino, espresso or French press, the results of all of these blow them away! As I have been drinking good espresso and cappuccino many times before, I know I am achieving some pretty good results, but, what most impresses me is how good the french press is with freshly grounded beans! It's a whole new drink compared to the bags I used to stick in from the supermarket!

I think I have answered most of the points raised here. I guess my key point summary would be:
*Consistency with grind quantity, tamp pressure.
*Freash beans from a reputable roaster, or my beginners compromise with fresh being a max of 1 month old.
*Practice!

I feel I'm missing something up here, so I think I'll eat, and read through all the postes again with a coffee :)
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,684
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, Preciso/Esatto, KyM...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun May 27, 2012, 9:58am
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

You pretty much covered it, and where I'll agree with Pietro is if it TASTES good, it IS good, regardless of how much crema is in the glass.

What many of us here stateside do is order 5#'s (not sure how many metric TONS that is...lol), and freeze 4#'s of it in separate Mason (tight sealing) jars.

You probably know, when removing sealed beans from the freezer, to allow them to thoroughly defrost BEFORE opening the jar.

Good luck with your coffee addiction!

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,741
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, 2 Macap M4s, OE...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Mon May 28, 2012, 7:30am
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

Rob,

1kg = 2.2 pounds

he's buying 1.25 kg, so that's about 2.75 pounds


OP,

If you're not doing it already, I'd recommend you go with the divide into mason jars and freeze most of that method of keeping the bulk fresh.  Most of us use 16oz (~500mL) jars, but it'll depend on how fast you go through the beans.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Nicko999
Senior Member


Joined: 7 May 2012
Posts: 13
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic
Grinder: Breville Smart
Drip: Moccamaster
Posted Wed May 30, 2012, 5:26am
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

A quick update. I have received my first batch of freshly roasted coffee. 2 bags of Inidan washed arabica, which says it should be rested for 10 days after roasting, so this was perfect to start with as it arrived 10 days after roasting! And the other 3 bags state 18 days rest after roasting.

I have made 2 double shots now, the first shot gave 60ml in around 21-22 seconds, I tasted and I was suprised with the taste... It was very complex, compared to my other "sell by" coffee I found there to be many flavours, some initially, some on the after taste. Being a big drinker of red wine, I would compare it more to drinking a fine wine, the way I appreciate it anyway. The second shot was 27 seconds on a finer setting. I found this one to have lost some of it's charm and taste a little bitter. As the glass sits in front of me now on the table, it appears a very dark rich brown in colour, more chocolatey than previous shots I have pulled.

So I guess I will pull a few more shots with this until I find the perfect grind setting etc, but it is very exciting! I look forward to making a cappuccino with this too.
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TheSunInsideYou
Senior Member
TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Wed May 30, 2012, 6:29am
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

Nicko999 Said:

I was suprised with the taste... It was very complex, compared to my other "sell by" coffee I found there to be many flavours, some initially, some on the after taste. Being a big drinker of red wine, I would compare it more to drinking a fine wine, the way I appreciate it anyway. The second shot was 27 seconds on a finer setting. I found this one to have lost some of it's charm and taste a little bitter. As the glass sits in front of me now on the table, it appears a very dark rich brown in colour, more chocolatey than previous shots I have pulled.

So I guess I will pull a few more shots with this until I find the perfect grind setting etc, but it is very exciting! I look forward to making a cappuccino with this too.

Posted May 30, 2012 link

There's no turning back now, you've crossed the threshold. :)

-Dave-
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,741
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, 2 Macap M4s, OE...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed May 30, 2012, 8:18am
Subject: Re: My entrance in to the coffee world.
 

^ +1, sounds like you're hooked!

You're dead-on with the wine analogy.  In fact, there are more compounds in coffee that contribute to flavor profiles, than there are in wine!

Also, you'll also find the taste changes with modifications of brew temp.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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