Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: General Discussion
Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > General > Off the Shelf...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 3 of 5 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,372
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Feb 27, 2012, 9:17pm
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

Two quick points, Grant . . .

GrantT Said:

Uhm....doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of "fresh roasted".

Posted February 27, 2012 link

Uh, no.  Not at all.  

Ordering five pounds (or more) keeps the shipping cost low, and freezing keeps them fresh!  ;^)

And secondly . . .

GrantT Said:

First off, in Canada, you do not get great beans delivered to your door for $10/lb.  You get great beans delivered to your door for around $20lb...maybe $17 on a good day.  Believe me, I've tried them all from across the entire country and even ordered from the US.  If anyone can point me to where I could get them for less, I would be happy to try/buy.

Posted February 27, 2012 link

Yes, I was afraid of that -- that's why I kept making the distinction between the US and Canada.  What works in one place may not always work in the other, and this is certainly one example of that . . .

Danger! Danger! Warning, Will Robinson -- Thread Drift Approaching!

GrantT Said:

Anyways...you are also excluding a major point...there is GREAT italian off-the-shelf espresso available....it just dies quickly once opened.  This has been a topic of discussion at home-barista.com numerous times...anyone who just writes it off completely perhaps needs to experiment a bit.  Reading appreciation threads on italian espsresso's is what got me started playing with them more...

Posted February 27, 2012 link

FWIW, the reason I dismiss "great" Italian off-the-shelf espresso is two-fold:  a) while I completely agree you can get some really nice shots immediately upon opening, I also agree it stales and dies very quickly; and b) it's too expensive, compared to freshly roasted beans I can get delivered to my door.  (As I said above, Illy is $18.49 for 250g., rather than $13.99 for 454g. delivered.)  

Hmmmm . . . though I confess the idea of taking Italian espresso and freezing it never would have occurred to me prior to reading this thread, I may have to try it for myself if only for the intellectual exercise.

Cheers,
Jason

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
yiplong
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Posts: 80
Location: EU
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 2:43pm
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

maybe this device would work well:
Click Here (www.amazon.com)
keeps bean in battery-operated vacuum jar.  Judging by the picture it will probably hold 1-2 lb of beans.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
MARIOBARBA
Senior Member
MARIOBARBA
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 126
Location: MONTREAL CANADA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Ascaso DUO Prof TRONIC
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012, 5:58pm
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

That looks cool, but as someone who has a three year old and a 10 month old at home, the last thing I need is something else to put batteries in :).  Instead, I have this that I have been very happy with Click Here (www.amazon.com)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
GrantT
Senior Member
GrantT
Joined: 9 Feb 2005
Posts: 692
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Elektra A3
Grinder: HG-One 71mm #002, Macap M4D
Posted Thu Mar 1, 2012, 10:02am
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

yiplong Said:

maybe this device would work well:
Click Here (www.amazon.com)
keeps bean in battery-operated vacuum jar.  Judging by the picture it will probably hold 1-2 lb of beans.

Posted February 28, 2012 link

My concern would be the repeated opening/vacuuming.  I think that would be great for fresh-roasted as well, but "pre-aged" italian beans I don't think can stand that.  They need to be used quickly after opening....ie. think coffee shop...they go through many bags in a day.  I am trying to extend that paradigm to home use, while still benefiting from purchasing 1kg bags.

I experimented with a few different containers, and so far, the best results have been freezing SMALL batches of the beans.  After two days, I find these "aged" beans are done...i.e.  I open a container (I count that as day 1), finish the container on the next day, and all is great.  If I let it go to day 3....the extraction isn't the same.

My baseline so far is adjusting my grinder based on the beans extracting perfectly immediately after the new bag is opened.  If I have to do anything other than micro-adjustments for humidity etc, I know they are done.  I find that two days after opening...I have to start tightening the grinder, which corresponds directly to flavor loss etc in this case.

Grant

 
"Wake up and Smell the Coffee"
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
edmonton66
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Location: Edmonton, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Aug 26, 2012, 11:17am
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

Hi Grant.  I've been experimenting with different beans from London Drugs for my little Breville Cafe Roma.  Their prices are great when things are on sale.  I have found "Ethical Beans - Sweet Espresso" (roasted in Vancouver) enjoyable.  It has more of the rich, chocolate going on then the citrus (not a big fan of the citrus) and might be worth your checking out.  The bags are also resealable and that 'seems' to keep the beans pretty fresh (keeping in mind my cheap machine and entry level baratza grinder).  They are in all the Edmonton Locations so I suspect they'd be in St. Albert too...just checked.  They're on for $9 for 340gr until Wednesday. I'll be stocking up.  So you know.  The best buy date is a year after the roast date.

gregrory.  

(waiting to find out if the Breville BES900xl I have sitting in my dining room is old stock that I need to return to the Bay and get one somewhere else.   Next up, a new grinder) wheeeeeeeeeeeee....i like this ride!!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,383
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Sun Aug 26, 2012, 8:57pm
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

I have never read anything that shows that vacuum packing repeatedly will preserve coffee. If you could develop enough vacuum to remove the oxygen, it will just bring more of the volatile elements to the surface of the coffee, and as soon as the container is opened the oxygen floods in and will quickly degrade the coffee. Staling is a chemical process and vacuum will not stop that.
Certainly, this is my opinion, but if you find that vacuum packing keeps coffee tasting fresh, the coffee was stale to begin with and had little more to lose. The only proven thing that will slow or stop the degradation is freezing.

 
Visit My Website
www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 653
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sun Aug 26, 2012, 11:05pm
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

Maybe I'm missing something here...

What's wrong with using local roasteries?

I have a few different local sources for my beans, I find on average they're around $36/kg for a typical espresso blend. (About $16/lb)

I know the only way to go cheaper is to roast my own, but I find that sourcing green beans is much more difficult than finding roasted ones.

If I were to roast beans, I'd have to do it in the garage which isn't temperature controlled. It makes me wonder how bad it would be to
roast frozen beans....

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
back to top
 View Profile Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
MARIOBARBA
Senior Member
MARIOBARBA
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 126
Location: MONTREAL CANADA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Ascaso DUO Prof TRONIC
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012, 5:21am
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

frcn Said:

Staling is a chemical process and vacuum will not stop that.

Posted August 26, 2012 link

Being a chemical process, there are a few ways to retard the reaction.  One as you mentioned is to put the coffee in the freezer.  The lower temperatures will slow the reaction rate and the coffee will take longer to stale.

Another would be to limit one of the reagents, in this case oxygen.  By removing as much oxygen as possible you can in fact (in theory anyway) delay the staling process by removing the thing that causes staling.  The process uses the same principle as roasters who will flush their coffee with nitrogen (an inert gas that reacts with almost nothing) so as to push out any oxygen.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 849
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012, 7:41am
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

I doesn't take much oxygen for oxydation to occur. Even commercial vacuum seal systems are a long way from a perfect vacuumn and even getting out 99% of the air leaves enough oxygen to stale foods. A "vacuum" canister for coffee might get down to 20-30% of atmospheric pressure, but every time you open it, you're letting fresh oxygen in. Freezing is far more effective. Freezing in vacuum bags, sealed by decent vacuum equipment is even better, but that's enough equipment expense and time to do the sealing that any savings are, realistically, out the window entirely.

I roast once a week for enough coffee to last through the week. I roast indoors with a Behmor and the exhaust fan running on the stove. Works fine, my coffee's always fresh and I actually enjoy sourcing beans and experimenting with blends. As they say, YMMV.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,372
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Aug 27, 2012, 9:47am
Subject: Re: Off the Shelf Espresso Experimentation
 

qualin Said:

Maybe I'm missing something here... What's wrong with using local roasteries?

Posted August 26, 2012 link

Nothing if . . .
-- you like their beans; and
-- you know the beans are fresh.

I can't speak for Calgary, but often when you walk into a local roaster (in many places around the U.S.), the beans you buy are in a bin (not good), and/or the beans are stored, pre-packaged, in paper bags* (not good), and/or the the person behind the counter has no information about the date of roasting (not good).

Now let me hasten to add this is not always the case; many local roasters are far more "together" when it comes to the beans they sell.  But there certainly is nothing wrong with buying beans online from a person/company who will roast the beans and ship them to you on the same day.  As I said above, you can't complain about freshness when the beans are delivered to your door 48-72 hours after roasting!

Cheers,
Jason

* This, as opposed to sealed bags with a one-way gas valve to permit CO2 gas to escape without letting oxygen in.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 3 of 5 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > General > Off the Shelf...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.343724966049)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+