bure82 Senior Member Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 56 Location: Toronto
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 8:36am Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
TheMadTamper Said:
Besides, don't you have a shiny new CC1 to play with? I see you've been posting some questions on the CC1 threads. Go enjoy playing with your machine! :) It's a fine machine and is hours of fun on its own. The happiness of playing with new espresso toys should offset any "harm" caused by coffee consumption! :)
The harm our ridicule will do to you if you don't practice your barista skills well be far worse ;) And you DO have a good grinder, right? :)
very informative guys...ya i dont drink a lot or else i wont be able to sleep at night
Ya I have the CC1...played long to get the dosing right and little problems always happen...I have the bartza vario for grinder and that was a pain to get it calibrated as well...and now my new problem is my pf wont lock into the group after the machine is hot
Fair enough....something tells me the more you play with your CC1 that'll slowly change ;) Or there's always learning the joys of decaf! (I tend to do decaf during the week, caff mornings and weekends. Not all decafs are equal and it's its own skill set since it behaves a little differently than regular. But there are some very good decaf beans out there!)
Ya I have the CC1...played long to get the dosing right and little problems always happen...I have the bartza vario for grinder and that was a pain to get it calibrated as well...and now my new problem is my pf wont lock into the group after the machine is hot
It's always a slight uphill struggle just starting into the home barista hobby, but it always gets easier and you're always learning new things to improve what you already do no matter how many years you've been doing it! You have a great combination of machines, so you should definitely enjoy using them and stop worrying about if coffee will kill you :) The butter & cream laden Monin dark chocolate sauce I have a habit of adding to my morning lattes to make a mocha....THAT will kill me...not the coffee :P
I'll leave the specifics of the CC1 PF to the CC1 owner's threads....but my first guess would be that the group gasket popped out a bit (that can happen on E61 machines during backflushes or plugged shots if the gasket has no beveled top. Some people use it as a trick to quickly and easily remove the screen & gasket. Not every machine tends to want to do it though.) The solution though would be just cranking the PF in to push it back up. But I'm not familiar with the CC1 group, so definitely wait for others to verify that!
bure82 Senior Member Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 56 Location: Toronto
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 10:33am Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
ya...i got up one morning and drank one on empty stomach and didnt feel too well...thats why i asked the question....never really drank decaf before or made any shot with it...
ya took me a while to get everything up and running....until i realized the beans were stale...now with fresh bean it works better but still not sure if I calibrate my grinder properly...dont think i did but at least my shots are better now....syrups sound good...lol...i want to try some if i can buy some locally...
i seen how the E61 pop out and i think it's different on the cc1...i watched one of the Rocket Giotto video and they basically just pop the pf back in to put the gasket back on... on my cc1 i kinda got my pf back to where it normally is (with quite a bit of force)...hope this will lock the gasket back in place...i dont really see that many cc1 user here so hard to find an answer...ill email crossland and see
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 11:58am Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
bure82 Said:
ya...i got up one morning and drank one on empty stomach and didnt feel too well...thats why i asked the question....never really drank decaf before or made any shot with it...
Coffee is acidic with a high pH so it can upset an already upset stomach. Coffee plants aren't actually related to citrus, but it can have a citrus/lemon-like effect in that way. Also, if you're not used to caffeine it can be like that (if you're already a chocoholic, cola drinker, Mountain Dew drinker, or tea drinker though it's probably not the caffeine.) You get more tolerant to higher and higher levels of it though.
Decaf has a bad reputation because average decaf is acrid. Some of the artisan roasters have some excellent decafs though. The trouble with decaf is it goes stale much more quickly than caff, appears darker/oilier than it actually is, and tends to, for those of us using a bottomless portafilter to monitor the pour quality, most of the visual cues become invalid on decaf. It brews faster, blondes earlier, tends to like a cooler temp, and tends to produce less liquid for a given dose of beans. For learning, I'd say stick with your caff, but once you get accustomed to brewing it and want to learn a new side of brewing, decaf is a fun challenge. But I 've had several decafs that are among my favorite beans (including caff.) Fresco's Luna, Counter Culture's Rustico, 21st De Septembre (when in season, late winter, it's a Mexican single origin bean with a cayanne kick), and Klatch House Decaf remain my favorites. I haven't tried the Paradise decaf though I have a few bags in the freezer waiting for me.
It's easier to learn with caff though since you're just starting out, it's more controlled and predictable, and doesn't stale as fast. Decaf can be something of a moving target until you're used to it enough to predict dose/grind well. Fresh decaf can behave like stale caff. But if you do want some decaf after you get used to it, there's a lot of options to enjoy. Technically I have enough caffeine tolerance at this point that it doesn't interfere with sleeping pretty much ever...but I still use decaf on weeknight evenings just to be sure. :)
ya took me a while to get everything up and running....until i realized the beans were stale...now with fresh bean it works better but still not sure if I calibrate my grinder properly...dont think i did but at least my shots are better now....syrups sound good...lol...i want to try some if i can buy some locally...
The usual goal is ~2oz liquid in 25s. If you've got it pouring roughly that way you're in good shape. You can always adjust the dose or grind coarseness to compensate it to be faster or slower. The B.Vario is easy to adjust in very small increments either way. And don't worry about tamp, just be consistent and level, the pressure doesn't matter at all as long as its always the same. No knocking, tapping needed, etc, they just disturb the coffee. Obviously ~2oz in 25 seconds is a starting point and an average. Different blends may prefer different flow rates, usually the roaster tells you either on the website, bag, or on request. Same with temperature. And your own taste buds may prefer it differently. That's the fun!
The syrups are a "weakness" of mine. My inner coffee geek tells me it's "impure", but building "frou frou" drinks can be great fun, so I still enjoy playing with the flavorings. Both Monin and Torani sell direct, but over the border shipping isn't cheap. Every once in a blue moon I find a physical store that carries them, but you can probably check the espresso dealers up in CA...I'm not sure if iDrinkCoffee etc sells syrups and the like. Locally...it's hit or miss. In the US chains like Whole Foods, World Market etc occasionally have them. Starbucks locations sometimes sell them too, but theirs are, honestly, low quality. Here, Torani is more common to see on the rare occasions I see syrups in retail, but I suspect Monin is more common out of the US, and I happen to prefer it more.
i seen how the E61 pop out and i think it's different on the cc1...i watched one of the Rocket Giotto video and they basically just pop the pf back in to put the gasket back on... on my cc1 i kinda got my pf back to where it normally is (with quite a bit of force)...hope this will lock the gasket back in place...i dont really see that many cc1 user here so hard to find an answer...ill email crossland and see
Yeah, I'm not sure what kind of group the CC1 uses. It's a standard 58mm group but I don't know if it's a custom fab or sourced from stock parts. I doubt it behaves terribly uniquely in terms of gaskets though. It should be easy enough to inspect visually to make sure there's no blockages. Otherwise, after you got the PF back in its normal location, does the PF move freely when you re-insert it now, or is it still just as tough? You should definitely be able to get help from Crossland. E61 is unique in that the screen assembly is shaped like a "cup" and is held in by the gasket alone. That's what makes it so easy to pop fully out like that. But the gaskets can still pop out the same way depending on the machine. Most other groups hold the screen in by screw or bolt and the gasket is just a gasket, without holding anything else in. But it still works generally the same way. I know the Salvatore One Black/SES/Euro uses a non-E61 group that was derived from E61 tech, but with an Astoria/CMA type screen. The original gaskets in the One Black had a habit of popping out often, until they switched to a gasket with a bevel on the top so the pressure wouldn't push it away. I picture the CC1 behaving similarly but I can't say for sure.
bure82 Senior Member Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 56 Location: Toronto
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011, 5:15pm Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
ya i try to drink some water and eat something before i drink my coffee now.
dont think ill try any decaf anytime soon. there isnt much decaf choice for my local roaster and it takes me forever to even finish a lb of beans. maybe one day ill give it a go
i think my pour is getting better...today was slightly slow....adjusted my grind to a bit coarser...let see how it goes tomorrow...my tamp is a bit bad....not so consistent...i tend to tamp quite hard...maybe i should get one of those calibrated tamper for training...ive been testing with the temperature and finally got the temp i like...so far they taste pretty decent
ya i want to get a bottle just to play around with it...i always see starbuck use them in their frap....i heard monin is good...i only know one store here that sells it and its a bit of a drive especially with traffic...i wish i lived in the US....most dont even ship to canada...and its a lot cheaper too....
the group is one of those screw on ones....i look and no blockage....i clean it all the time....i notice that the gasket is a bit dry and when i moist it with some water ...it's a lot smoother to turn
my next machine will likely going to be a rocket giotto....
Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011, 7:12am Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
bure82 Said:
i think my pour is getting better...today was slightly slow....adjusted my grind to a bit coarser...let see how it goes tomorrow...my tamp is a bit bad....not so consistent...i tend to tamp quite hard...maybe i should get one of those calibrated tamper for training...ive been testing with the temperature and finally got the temp i like...so far they taste pretty decent
Calibrated dynamometric tampers are great learning tools. If you have a bathroom scale and don't mind the "ghetto effect" of using a bathroom scale for your coffee, it's an equally useful option to train with. It doesn't matter so much at what pressure you tamp. 5#, 30#, etc, so long as you consistently tamp to the same level all the time. There's those great stories of the old world Italian baristas who tamp like it's a body building contest, but it's not really needed. The harder you tamp, the coarser you tend to need to grind, the lighter you tamp, the finer. It mostly involves the time to "first drop" since no mater how hard you tamp it will NEVER be as much pressure as the pump will apply to the coffee when it hits 8-10bar pressure :) The point of the tamp is just to create an even level surface of sufficient density to resist the water to the point where it builds full pressure. As long as you tamp with CONSISTENT pressure, no matter how much or how little pressure that is, you'll grind accordingly and get the same result out of it with consistency.
I find it's easier to be level about tamping when applying less pressure. But that's just me. I also tend to "fingertip tamp" though it's surprising just how much force you can apply with just fingertips :)
ya i want to get a bottle just to play around with it...i always see starbuck use them in their frap....i heard monin is good...i only know one store here that sells it and its a bit of a drive especially with traffic...i wish i lived in the US....most dont even ship to canada...and its a lot cheaper too....
It can be fun! But it also hides the subtleties of flavor of a well extracted shot, too....so I certainly wouldn't use it all the time. I tend to make my "frou frou" big milk in the travel cup with it often...but I drink enough during the day that I get my share of "pure" coffee too :) A good bean makes a nice sweet cappuccino all on its own. But it's definitely fun for variety. Shipping tend to be pricy on it even in the US unless you're buying in large quantity. I tend to just stock up to save on shipping. I'm not sure if Monin directly ships to Canada, but if you don't mind a bit of extra shipping espresoparts.com in WA sells most syrup brands, and I believe they will ship to CA, if you can't find any other domestic dealer.
the group is one of those screw on ones....i look and no blockage....i clean it all the time....i notice that the gasket is a bit dry and when i moist it with some water ...it's a lot smoother to turn
Dry and cold usually is sticky, dry and hot usually is smooth. You don't have to crank it to a certain position or anything, just as far as as needed to create a seal. You can experiment with your backflush disc to find at what point it is sealed enough to not spray out the sides while under pressure.
my next machine will likely going to be a rocket giotto....
LOL, upgrade-itis already? Welcome to CoffeeGeek ;) I think you have plenty to keep you busy with the CC1 :) The electronics will keep the variables under control for you while you learn the "mano" part of the 4 M's. After that gets old hat and you can keep your grind and tamp predictable, understand temps and liquid volumes/brew ratio and how it all relates to flavor, THEN you can geek out and go manual with the HX flush fun :)
bure82 Senior Member Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 56 Location: Toronto
Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011, 9:36am Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
consistent is not a good word for me....i use to tamp pretty hard but now i grind finer and tamp really lightly now...still trying to find the best grind setting...so you tamp on the base with your finger?....
ill probably just use the syrup on stale coffee...lol..or maybe some cold drinks...i would probably drink more if i have access to my machine during the day..so i really only have time for one...i think shipping in US is good...i always see those free shipping to the 48 states all the time now....ill try to find them locally first...i really just want to try one bottle and see so i wont likely going to buy a lot
i would assume the gasket would expand when it's hot...well sometime it doesnt even go on the group at all...so that was the main problem...i kinda know the problem is now...the gasket tend to dry up pretty quickly so that's why it's hard to turn...bill on another post told me to use some lube...well right now i only have kitchen oil...which i think will wear out rubber...so after work...im going to wipe it clean and add some silicone lube if i can find some
well no upgrade now...i was really excited when order my cc1 before...but there's always little problem that annoys me...right now another problem is with my steam wand...water slowly leak out when i turn on the machine...the function is good..that's the reason i got this...
Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011, 10:25am Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
bure82 Said:
consistent is not a good word for me....i use to tamp pretty hard but now i grind finer and tamp really lightly now...still trying to find the best grind setting...so you tamp on the base with your finger?....
I generally distribute coffee, if needed, with one finger (from my one grinder I need to, from the other one, I don't.) Then I tap it a few times to settle the grinds. I then place the tamper in and feel the opposite ends of the base to be sure they feel level to the rim of the basket. If I distributed well, they are. If not, it needs adjustment. If not, I'll adjust a little pressure one direction or the other to correct the level. Then to actually tamp, I generally just have three fingers on the top of the tamper pressing down (with fairly decent force, but not a "hard tamp" and I don't "grip" the tamper. However my tamping style changes a little depending on what tamper I'm using (for the short handled Reg tampers that works very well, but when using a taller tamper I tend to grip from the side like normal. I find I'm most level with the "fingertip" method.) "Fingertip tamping" is a somewhat unconventional style, but I find it works for me....I started doing it after buying the short reg hourglass tamper and realizing the big flat top worked well that way. I may try one of the VST tampers though when they come out though, depending...)
I used to "nutate" (that's a fun word to say, and worth googling if you're uncertain about your distribution), but with the VST baskets, nutation is a bad idea. Nutation tends to build up greater density of grinds in the center which in most baskets is good, but on VST's they favor not having a central dense area. It leads to a "donut extraction" which, if watching a bottomless portafilter tends to mean there's a hollow "ring" in the center that isn't pouring.
ill probably just use the syrup on stale coffee...lol..or maybe some cold drinks...i would probably drink more if i have access to my machine during the day..so i really only have time for one...i think shipping in US is good...i always see those free shipping to the 48 states all the time now....ill try to find them locally first...i really just want to try one bottle and see so i wont likely going to buy a lot
"Free shipping" generally applies with most shops to orders over a certain dollar amount or on big ticket items, etc. It IS nice but it's rarely actually "free", it's just built into the pricing of he products :) It's convenient, but it's more marketing than anything else. IMO shipping in CA is pretty much identical as the US, but crossing the border is equally expensive in either direction (I'll be importing another Reg tamper head soon....irritating cross-border shipping and all...!)
i would assume the gasket would expand when it's hot...well sometime it doesnt even go on the group at all...so that was the main problem...i kinda know the problem is now...the gasket tend to dry up pretty quickly so that's why it's hard to turn...bill on another post told me to use some lube...well right now i only have kitchen oil...which i think will wear out rubber...so after work...im going to wipe it clean and add some silicone lube if i can find some
Usually lube is applied to the BACK and/or sides of the gasket, not usually the bottom, but it can't hurt either way. If Bill said it, it's good. I'd highly advise Dow 111 or I believe Hayes has a similar lubricant (not the Lubrifilm). You need something rated for high heat and direct contact with potable water. The 111 has become the espresso nut's default choice it seems. Most other "food safe" lubricants are either not rated for high heat or are rated for "incidental food contact" which is different than direct contact with potable water. However, in a pinch, the Lubrifilm CAN work. If Bill recommended something else though. I know some people even use olive oil sometimes, though I wouldn't use something like that without being told it's acceptable by whoever handles the warranty ;)
well no upgrade now...i was really excited when order my cc1 before...but there's always little problem that annoys me...right now another problem is with my steam wand...water slowly leak out when i turn on the machine...the function is good..that's the reason i got this...
The CC1 is very new and new machines always have hiccups right after launch. That's the "early adopter" price. The important part is that the dealer/manufacturer take care of it though. Similar things happened with the LM GS/3 (also largely designed by Bill), and that's a $6500 beast of a machine :). But they got all the kinks worked out over time. Same with the B.Vario, and everything else. Hopefully a leaky steam wand is little more than a washer!
bure82 Senior Member Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 56 Location: Toronto
Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011, 2:37pm Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
you are so detail with your tamping....i seen quite a lot of barista tamp with just the finger...i trying to tamp like that too but still havent got a level tamp too well...i guess bottomless pf would help....i want one so bad....i wish bill would send me his prototype...lol...is there a vst tamper coming out soon too....i want to try one of those vst basket...want to see if it's that much better....
for me, i think ordering from US is better...the price is cheaper....tax is lower...free shipping....when i got my machine...most place dont offer free shipping....and if it's from US store...you get more freebie for sure....if they only ship to canada...good thing reg is canadian made....but still expensive to buy even here...i love my reg...feels solid....
i lube the bottom because the pf was touching the bottom and its not smooth so i have to lube that way...kitchen oil is all i have right now and i know its not the best....where can i find the brand you mention
ya...new...risk to try....well my leak..im guessing its from the condensation...but today it was actually spraying out water...but once i turn it on and off again...it works fine...
Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011, 3:21pm Subject: Re: Espresso everyday
TheMadTamper Said:
If you have a bathroom scale and don't mind the "ghetto effect" of using a bathroom scale for your coffee, it's an equally useful option to train with.
Yeah, just make sure your wife didn't use it beforehand, it might be a few pounds off on the light side.
snicker ... snicker ....
Len
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
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