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Is adding sugar lame?
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Discussions > Espresso > General > Is adding sugar...  
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DavecUK
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Posted Thu Feb 3, 2011, 6:26pm
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

ilcaffedio Said:

Dave this isn't specifically directed at you, but It is possible to be overly politically correct.  That attitude reinforces the commodity coffee mindset and completely disregards the efforts of specialty coffee industry, and what we have strived to become.  It disregards the work of everyone from seed to cup.  

Posted February 3, 2011 link

I'm not sure it does, in the same way when Carsilver said what's the point of coming to a Coffeegeek site, im not sure that's the right way either. I say this is because if you make these people feel either unwelcome, stupid or wrong in any way and don't try to understand the mindset, then all the efforts you put in are never as effective. Tell someone the way they enjoy their coffee is lame and they may not come back, may not communicate with you again and you loose any chance you had to try and introduce them to other ways of thinking. Far better to say, "sure, OK if you like it that way, that's fine", "have you ever tried......."....far more productive. The efforts of the speciality Coffee industry are a good start, but I think could in future be more end customer, rather than mainly industry focussed. Very easy to get so caught up in it all and forget the end customer of the product....Joe public. If commodity coffee didn't exist, you would lose a valuable introductory step into the world of speciality coffee. Lot's of people start with something like a Tassimo, or a carafe and supermarket coffee, then go on to greater things.

When working with manufacturers of espresso machines or roasters, I could have said, "your machine is crap in these areas".....end of conversation. I found that "I understand why you want to do that" and genuinely trying to understand, followed by "have you thought of trying this", works better.
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TheMadTamper
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Posted Fri Feb 4, 2011, 9:05am
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

DavecUK Said:

I'm not sure it does, in the same way when Carsilver said what's the point of coming to a Coffeegeek site, im not sure that's the right way either. I say this is because if you make these people feel either unwelcome, stupid or wrong in any way and don't try to understand the mindset, then all the efforts you put in are never as effective. Tell someone the way they enjoy their coffee is lame and they may not come back, may not communicate with you again and you loose any chance you had to try and introduce them to other ways of thinking. Far better to say, "sure, OK if you like it that way, that's fine", "have you ever tried......."....far more productive. The efforts of the speciality Coffee industry are a good start, but I think could in future be more end customer, rather than mainly industry focussed. Very easy to get so caught up in it all and forget the end customer of the product....Joe public. If commodity coffee didn't exist, you would lose a valuable introductory step into the world of speciality coffee. Lot's of people start with something like a Tassimo, or a carafe and supermarket coffee, then go on to greater things.

Posted February 3, 2011 link

To be fair, the focus of this thread is not on whether or not cafe owners should chase sugar users out of the cafe with a broom in one hand and a spiked portafilter in the other, nor how the industry should view customers who do so, but rather a question by a cafe customer as to whether a customer should view adding sugar as proper etiquette or not.  That is end consumer centric and demonstrates actions/thoughts by the consumer on how the coffee's serving is intended.

When working with manufacturers of espresso machines or roasters, I could have said, "your machine is crap in these areas".....end of conversation. I found that "I understand why you want to do that" and genuinely trying to understand, followed by "have you thought of trying this", works better.

You've never been to New York, have you? ;)

I'll agree with Tony about "overly politically correct"....the "don't word it this way and say what you mean, cow your words behind politically correct patronizing phrases that everyone sees through and knows what you really mean but makes you look less accusational" mentality is SOOO last year.  There are people (and geographical regions) (read: NYC) that actually appreciate blunt honesty :)

And, no, I'm not suggesting to be rude to everyone, but there's a difference between kindness and political correctness.  PC tends to have a patronizing "lie to me" tone :) We expect it from governments and corporations....I don't want to hear it from my baista or espresso tech!  Obviously you're working with big corporations who expect the dialogue to be PC (sadly), so you probably don't want to tell your suppliers they build garbage.
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DavecUK
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Posted Fri Feb 4, 2011, 9:48am
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

I simply believe people are entitled to have things the way they want them, If I or anyone else thinks differently, then it's up to us to persuade them (and at least do them the courtesy of understanding their point of view), I might think a decision/elements of a product is crap, but until I understand why, it's an opinion that might be incorrect. The consumer is king, not the speciality coffee industry, even though I understand why some might hold different views about how their products "should" be enjoyed.

Politically Correct....I am not, but i'm trying to learn to be tactful. I pick and choose who I work for and when, I have no need to work (retired), I only do it if I want to, or I am interested in a project, so I don't have to be PC at all..
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Endo
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Posted Fri Feb 4, 2011, 5:55pm
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

I once threw a friend out of my house for asking for ice with a 25 year Macallan Single Malt Scotch I offered him.

I guess I'm just not a "have it your way " kinda guy. :-)
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gime2much
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Posted Fri Feb 4, 2011, 9:33pm
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

Endo Said:

I once threw a friend out of my house for asking for ice with a 25 year Macallan Single Malt Scotch I offered him.

I guess I'm just not a "have it your way " kinda guy. :-)

Posted February 4, 2011 link

I don't go quite that far but if a guest puts ketchup on the prime steak i spent considerable effort picking out and preparing, it's their last invite!

 
Dan Brewer
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jrtp09
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Posted Mon Feb 7, 2011, 3:06am
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

frankthecrank Said:

Of course it's not lame to add sugar to your espresso if you enjoy it that way. Espresso is not a contest or a challenge. It is one of life's enjoyments given to us by the gods. Do with it what you will!

Posted January 28, 2011 link

I agree, coffee is nectar from the gods, I would never adulterate it by adding anything to it after it's been brewed - be it sugar or, heaven forbid, a vanilla flavouring!
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vjhardcore
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Posted Sun Apr 3, 2011, 4:35pm
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

LavazzaBlue Said:

Hi! I am a newbie on this forum.  I noticed while in Italy that Italians often put sugar in their espresso, so I was surprised by the question and answers here!

Posted January 25, 2011 link

Ha - I love this forum. Theres no such thing as a dumb question; and you'll almost always get multiple answers that are all right. With food/drink my two cents theres never a black/white.

That said, my answer inline with the above "Only Nonnas' and Nonnos' put sugar in their expresso" - because centuries ago we only had Moka machines.

Cheers

 
"I'm a man of simple tastes, easily satisfied by the best" Winston Churchill
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DavecUK
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Posted Mon Apr 4, 2011, 5:33pm
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

gime2much Said:

I don't go quite that far but if a guest puts ketchup on the prime steak i spent considerable effort picking out and preparing, it's their last invite!

Posted February 4, 2011 link

from the land of barbecue sauce......lol
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gime2much
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Posted Mon Apr 4, 2011, 6:57pm
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

DavecUK Said:

from the land of barbecue sauce......lol

Posted April 4, 2011 link

I will grudgingly provide you with BBQ sauce for the ribs....but only if you insist ;-)

 
Dan Brewer
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Posted Tue Apr 5, 2011, 9:19am
Subject: Re: Is adding sugar lame?
 

gime2much Said:

I will grudgingly provide you with BBQ sauce for the ribs....but only if you insist ;-)

Posted April 4, 2011 link

LOL.  +1.

Habenaro sauce, now that's a different story .... oh yeah.  Gotta love it.  

Len

 
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