Posted Mon May 12, 2008, 1:48pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
That sums it up in a single word (consistency) Jon.
s1rfletch Said:
To be honest, the one thing that is a draw to Starbucks is their consistency with the espresso shots... the milk is another story all together with many variables - the biggest being poorly trained baristas. I've gone to many small coffee shops, even ones that don't use super-autos and had very, very bad espresso. I often just go with an Americano when trying a new shop until I've seen enough lattes and cappuccinos made with consistent quality steamed milk. Nothing aggravates me more than ordering a cappuccino and getting hard, crappy bubbles (doesn't even qualify as foam). I've even walked into a small shop, early in the morning when no one else was in the place, ordered a cappuccino, and had the person behind the counter open the fridge, and get out the milk pitcher that already had foamy milk in it, heat it up and then put it in my cup. At least I know I won't get that at a Starbucks. Is it the best - not a chance, but I do know exactly what I'm getting.
Unfortunately, they are teaching people "not to drink coffee", because it does not taste good, in China. Even for their first time visitors of *$s, people learnt that coffee is not good and do not touch it. It is different in other countries, because you need or must drink coffee so you can only find the better what you can find. This is the reason why the Chinese coffee market does not grow.
Some of the local people may think why other people drink those terrible "dark water".
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
THAT really does sum up the *$s experience. While I recognize the contribution the the likes of *$s, Seattle's Worst, et al have made to the awareness of the masses for specialty coffee, I feel that they have done just as much to turn people away from that "terrible dark water".
Posted Thu May 15, 2008, 5:22pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
Have you forgotten the terrible dark water passed off as coffee at almost every eating establishment in the US, I doubt I have ever had anything as bad, compared to this stuff Starbucks is the elixer of the gods. Jon.
Worldman Said:
THAT really does sum up the *$s experience. While I recognize the contribution the the likes of *$s, Seattle's Worst, et al have made to the awareness of the masses for specialty coffee, I feel that they have done just as much to turn people away from that "terrible dark water".
s1rfletch Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia Grinder: Nuova Simonelli Grinta
Posted Fri May 16, 2008, 7:55pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
santalum Said:
Have you forgotten the terrible dark water passed off as coffee at almost every eating establishment in the US, I doubt I have ever had anything as bad, compared to this stuff Starbucks is the elixer of the gods. Jon.
It depends. If the guy in a restaurant is trying hard to learn to make good shot, it might be possible. But, most retaurants does not care too much about the quality of their coffee drinks. It is always a question for me to think about, why they care of their food, but not coffee if they serve coffee. They are running a food & beverage service orgination, not only food. Unless they believe that their coffee can be as good as any other cafes.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
Worldman Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,622 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Control Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo - Gaggia...
Posted Sat May 17, 2008, 8:50am Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
santalum Said:
Have you forgotten the terrible dark water passed off as coffee at almost every eating establishment in the US, I doubt I have ever had anything as bad...
Well, this is true enough...but that to which I refer is the abuse that espresso, cappucino, etc. have suffered at the hands of *$s. I think it can't be denied that they have turned a lot of the World away from and potential enjoyment of true espresso.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
Rawman Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2003 Posts: 915 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar Office Control ,... Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: Silex Vintage Vac Pot Drip: Bodum chambord FP, Melitta... Roaster: Buzzroaster, HG/DB
Posted Sat May 17, 2008, 10:46pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
roastaroma Said:
Ciao Jon,
Sorry to say, you're too right about the airlines -- service has gone down the tubes here. Once the planes finally get off the ground, they tend to operate correctly, at least.
As for the espresso I have to agree with santalum. It's a sad situation. I consider myself extremely lucky living within 4 miles of aforementioned Barefoot of Santa Clara. Also I'm within an hours drive from Pacific Bay coffee, plus in nearby San Francisco there are Blue Bottle, Ritual, and several more newly opened top quality shops. However when I go on vacation it's a good bet espresso will be undrinkable. And restaurants, even in San Fran just can't get it right. Why is that a place that charges 25 bucks for a steak can't seem to figure out how to pull a decent shot.
Rawman the Expobarbarian.. AKA the Original Jon R.
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