Posted Sat May 10, 2008, 4:22pm Subject: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
After 2 months in the US and countless (sometimes humorous) attempts to buy a decent shot of espresso I have to say the product offered by Starbucks was consistent, reliable and drinkable. Some of the stuff I had served to me as espresso would make you shudder, one in particular, an Italian restaurant in Virginia served an excellent meal accompanied by very good Californian wine, I inquired as to the quality of their espresso only to be assured it was up to the same standard we had already experienced, sooooo I ordered a shot for myself and a cappa for my wife, big mistake, what I received was a couple of spoons of instant in hot water and the cappa was similar in a larger cup with a slosh of milk, my complaint was met with dismay and a total lack of understanding of the espresso process, after a little good natured banter that involved the manager as well as the waiter (when I mentioned the lack of crema in the shot I was told they did not put cream in their espresso, nuff said) the coffee was not charged for (they were ok about it and I still left a tip for the meal) We had another memorable experience at Panera bread but won't go into that at this time. We had a great time over there, met some wonderful people but the standard of coffee (except for Starbucks) was ghastly. As far as coffee is concerned it was great to get back to Oz, in particular Adelaide where the standard is excellent, and of course my own much loved Silvia/Rocky combo. Don't take this thread as knocking the US, we had a wonderful time, loved the country and the people:) the one sour note was American airlines, would never fly with them again, but that's another story. Jon.
Posted Sat May 10, 2008, 5:31pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
Glad you unjoyed the US Jon, pity about the coffee (or lack of it), it's pretty sad when one has to compare Starbucks with a good coffee!! It must have been heaven to get home a boot up Silvia and knock out some great shots. We in the West have some great coffee outlets and it's hard accepting c............p coffee when out and about!!!
Posted Sat May 10, 2008, 9:40pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
Hi Jon,
Sorry about your coffee experience in the US. I view Starbucks as the "fast food" of coffee. It isn't awful but any good coffee shop should be able to beat them. In the west we have Peet's which is way better than *$ even if they roast their coffee too dark. In Santa Clara CA there is Barefoot coffee roasters. They roast in house and their coffee is very good and their baristas win many competitions.
I have moved from the Santa Clara valley to the Sacramento area. We have some good coffee shops here as well.
With all that said you still have to look at the machine in a new place to see if it isn't nasty then watch the barista pull a shot to see if you are not better off going to one of the many *$ before you order.
roastaroma Senior Member Joined: 21 Nov 2007 Posts: 253 Location: San Francisco, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Sirena Grinder: Rocky Drip: Bodum French Press Roaster: Blue Bottle Coffee
Posted Sun May 11, 2008, 12:46am Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
Ciao Jon,
Those of us who've become accustomed to high-quality espresso (at home, usually) will cringe with recognition -- the unpleasant truth is that this country still has a long, long way to go before decent espresso is as commonplace as it is in Italy & Down Under. As a rule of thumb, one should avoid espresso in restaurants & bars, and stick to coffee shops (esp. ones connected with micro-roasters). In New York, at a posh French bistro in SoHo, I ended an otherwise excellent meal with a mediocre espresso (a $5 double, no less) -- and this in one of our gourmet ghettos. By contrast, I had a sublime espresso at Gimme Coffee, a short walk away, for $2.
Sorry to say, you're too right about the airlines -- service has gone down the tubes here. Once the planes finally get off the ground, they tend to operate correctly, at least.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,023 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sun May 11, 2008, 8:24am Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
I guess, that is the reason why *$s are going further and further.
I hope not.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://kaffacafe.axspace.com/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
s1rfletch Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2007 Posts: 54 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia Grinder: Nuova Simonelli Grinta
Posted Sun May 11, 2008, 10:12am Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
To be honest, the one thing that is a draw to Starbucks is their consistency with the espresso shots... the milk is another story all together with many variables - the biggest being poorly trained baristas. I've gone to many small coffee shops, even ones that don't use super-autos and had very, very bad espresso. I often just go with an Americano when trying a new shop until I've seen enough lattes and cappuccinos made with consistent quality steamed milk. Nothing aggravates me more than ordering a cappuccino and getting hard, crappy bubbles (doesn't even qualify as foam). I've even walked into a small shop, early in the morning when no one else was in the place, ordered a cappuccino, and had the person behind the counter open the fridge, and get out the milk pitcher that already had foamy milk in it, heat it up and then put it in my cup. At least I know I won't get that at a Starbucks. Is it the best - not a chance, but I do know exactly what I'm getting.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,023 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sun May 11, 2008, 10:47am Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
s1rfletch Said:
To be honest, the one thing that is a draw to Starbucks is their consistency with the espresso shots... the milk is another story all together with many variables - the biggest being poorly trained baristas. I've gone to many small coffee shops, even ones that don't use super-autos and had very, very bad espresso. I often just go with an Americano when trying a new shop until I've seen enough lattes and cappuccinos made with consistent quality steamed milk. Nothing aggravates me more than ordering a cappuccino and getting hard, crappy bubbles (doesn't even qualify as foam). I've even walked into a small shop, early in the morning when no one else was in the place, ordered a cappuccino, and had the person behind the counter open the fridge, and get out the milk pitcher that already had foamy milk in it, heat it up and then put it in my cup. At least I know I won't get that at a Starbucks. Is it the best - not a chance, but I do know exactly what I'm getting.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://kaffacafe.axspace.com/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
Posted Mon May 12, 2008, 2:28pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
Spent some time in Ca as well, and my coffee experience was pretty much the same as on the East coast, having said that I was not on a quest for the perfect cup, so didn't go out of my may searching for coffee shops, simply sampled what we happened on.
greeneye Said:
Glad you unjoyed the US Jon, pity about the coffee (or lack of it), it's pretty sad when one has to compare Starbucks with a good coffee!! It must have been heaven to get home a boot up Silvia and knock out some great shots. We in the West have some great coffee outlets and it's hard accepting c............p coffee when out and about!!!
Posted Mon May 12, 2008, 2:35pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
No big deal Phil, I can live without a decent cup for a while. Take your point re Starbucks (It isn't awful) but unlike some others you can drink it. :), I was in Santa Clara but was not aware of Barefoot coffee roasters, would have been nice to try them, maybe next time.
PJK Said:
Hi Jon,
Sorry about your coffee experience in the US. I view Starbucks as the "fast food" of coffee. It isn't awful but any good coffee shop should be able to beat them. In the west we have Peet's which is way better than *$ even if they roast their coffee too dark. In Santa Clara CA there is Barefoot coffee roasters. They roast in house and their coffee is very good and their baristas win many competitions.
I have moved from the Santa Clara valley to the Sacramento area. We have some good coffee shops here as well.
With all that said you still have to look at the machine in a new place to see if it isn't nasty then watch the barista pull a shot to see if you are not better off going to one of the many *$ before you order.
Posted Mon May 12, 2008, 2:43pm Subject: Re: In defence of Starbucks, and other things.
I agree Wayne, being able to pull good to very good shots at home makes us over critical of what is offered to us by the so called professional's. The situation in generally the same in Aussie restaurants, we tend to finish our eating out experience with coffee when we arrive home. Jon.
roastaroma Said:
Ciao Jon,
Those of us who've become accustomed to high-quality espresso (at home, usually) will cringe with recognition -- the unpleasant truth is that this country still has a long, long way to go before decent espresso is as commonplace as it is in Italy & Down Under. As a rule of thumb, one should avoid espresso in restaurants & bars, and stick to coffee shops (esp. ones connected with micro-roasters). In New York, at a posh French bistro in SoHo, I ended an otherwise excellent meal with a mediocre espresso (a $5 double, no less) -- and this in one of our gourmet ghettos. By contrast, I had a sublime espresso at Gimme Coffee, a short walk away, for $2.
Sorry to say, you're too right about the airlines -- service has gone down the tubes here. Once the planes finally get off the ground, they tend to operate correctly, at least.
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