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"Settling" the Grounds...
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Discussions > Espresso > General > "Settling" the...  
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JR
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JR
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Posted Sat Nov 28, 2009, 8:23pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

Nearly four years later, I'm tinkering with this again.  If you want to see my little experiment, it's on YouTube now.  Note how QUICKLY the grounds collapse into the basket.

Jack

 
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JonR10
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Posted Sat Nov 28, 2009, 8:30pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

JR Said:

Note how QUICKLY the grounds collapse into the basket.

Posted November 28, 2009 link

That is just too cool....I wonder why I don't remember this thread?  

Now - what if the vibrator looked like a hockey puck (or portafilter fork - or tamping stand) and you could level by just setting a filled portafilter on the puck for a few seconds?  Wouldn't that be a cool little device for a shop (or home bar)?

 
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PJK
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Posted Sat Nov 28, 2009, 10:06pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

I use a vibe table like the small one in this link:
http://www.fosterdental.com/pages/vib.htm
I first put the basket with the grounds on the table with a canning funnel and declump with a small wire whisk as the vibrator is running.  I then put the basket in the bottomless handle, remove the funnel and with the portafilter handle on the vibe table I vibe and tamp. I started vibing and tamping with just the basket then putting it into the handle.  I found that putting the basket into the handle first cut down on the occurrence of squirties.

Phil

 
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Posted Sat Nov 28, 2009, 11:43pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

Interesting idea.

The August 1941 edition of Popular Science (Google Books) has a project on how to make an engraving tool from a transformer... pretty simple circuit, I believe that could be built into a tamping stand.  The frequency is just the 60 cycle AC from the household current.

My mother gave my kids a bar of soap that vibrated when you took it out of the base.  It was 80% plastic box with 20% soap around it so it didn't last long, but something like that might be interesting if the amplitude was right.

Other ideas are the ultrasonic jewelry cleaner tanks or massagers.

-Chris

 
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PJK
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Posted Sun Nov 29, 2009, 12:40am
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

The cannining funnel which I mentioned is a modified one from my "Cvilized Rocky":

"I civilized my Rocky"

I don't bother with all that pre-tamping stuff with the plastic tamper any more.  I just grind, brush and purge the grounds into the basket with funnel, then lift the basket and funnel out of the former doser chamber, place them on the vibe table and de-clump.  After de-clumping I place the loaded basket into the handle, level and tamp with the portafilter on the running vibe table as I tamp.

Phil

PJK Said:

I use a vibe table like the small one in this link:
http://www.fosterdental.com/pages/vib.htm
I first put the basket with the grounds on the table with a canning funnel and declump with a small wire whisk as the vibrator is running.  I then put the basket in the bottomless handle, remove the funnel and with the portafilter handle on the vibe table I vibe and tamp. I started vibing and tamping with just the basket then putting it into the handle.  I found that putting the basket into the handle first cut down on the occurrence of squirties.

Phil

Posted November 28, 2009 link


 
Philip J. Keleshian
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JR
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JR
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Posted Sun Nov 29, 2009, 1:00pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

JonR10 Said:

Now - what if the vibrator looked like a hockey puck (or portafilter fork - or tamping stand) and you could level by just setting a filled portafilter on the puck for a few seconds?  Wouldn't that be a cool little device for a shop (or home bar)?

Posted November 28, 2009 link

That's exactly what "Bertie Doe" on the Home-Barista.com forum did.  I think the dental vibrator is probably just too violent.  But I'm with you, I've been thinking of how to make practical application of anything that might be learned from these experiments.  In the two or three threads where it's come up on the H-B forum, the terms "torture devices" and "Rube Goldberg" machines come up when discussing this AND the WDT.

I linked the video here, and embedded it into a post on the H-B forum (that thread started out discussing the WDT).  I'm hoping to get the discussion started again.  So far, no takers over there.

One thing I forgot to mention.  In my experiments, once the grounds settled, if I continued to apply vibration, clumps began to FORM.  It took barely more than two seconds to achieve the maximum benefit and at about four seconds  I started noticing fragmentation and clumping.

Jack

 
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PJK
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PJK
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Posted Sun Nov 29, 2009, 3:22pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

Hi Jack,

The dental vibrator in Bertie Doe's post which you linked is the same as mine.  If you are concerned that it is too violent you can turn it down to a very gentle vibration.

I got mine new from some eBay seller for about $30.

Phil

JR Said:

That's exactly what "Bertie Doe" on the Home-Barista.com forum did.  I think the dental vibrator is probably just too violent.  But I'm with you, I've been thinking of how to make practical application of anything that might be learned from these experiments.  In the two or three threads where it's come up on the H-B forum, the terms "torture devices" and "Rube Goldberg" machines come up when discussing this AND the WDT.

I linked the video here, and embedded it into a post on the H-B forum (that thread started out discussing the WDT).  I'm hoping to get the discussion started again.  So far, no takers over there.

One thing I forgot to mention.  In my experiments, once the grounds settled, if I continued to apply vibration, clumps began to FORM.  It took barely more than two seconds to achieve the maximum benefit and at about four seconds  I started noticing fragmentation and clumping.

Jack

Posted November 29, 2009 link


 
Philip J. Keleshian
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JR
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JR
Joined: 31 Mar 2003
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Location: Germantown, TN (right next to Elvistown)
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Espresso: Old Coffee Gaggia (x2.5)
Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo
Drip: Bona Vita (Thermal)
Roaster: GG/UFO
Posted Sun Nov 29, 2009, 3:47pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

Phil,

You may have reported here or somewhere else, but how does it work?  Does it help?  My conclusion that they're "too violent" was based on someone's results that were not too favorable.

Jack

 
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PJK
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PJK
Joined: 21 Jan 2002
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Posted Sun Nov 29, 2009, 8:25pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

Hi Jack,

Here is the string which prompted to get the dental vibrator:  "Dental Vibrator v clumping"?LastView=1259478288&Page=1   I see that you posted in that string.

I think that the vibrator works well although I am still developing my technique.  The biggest change from the time of that string is that I don't tamp the grounds until I put the basket into the handle.  Apparently the shock of putting the basket into the handle disturbed the puck.  A lot of squirties went away after I started tamping with the basket in the handle.  The bottomless portafilter rests pretty well on the vibe table.

Phil

JR Said:

Phil,

You may have reported here or somewhere else, but how does it work?  Does it help?  My conclusion that they're "too violent" was based on someone's results that were not too favorable.

Jack

Posted November 29, 2009 link


 
Philip J. Keleshian
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JR
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JR
Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 1,819
Location: Germantown, TN (right next to Elvistown)
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Old Coffee Gaggia (x2.5)
Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo
Drip: Bona Vita (Thermal)
Roaster: GG/UFO
Posted Sun Dec 29, 2013, 3:12pm
Subject: Re: "Settling" the Grounds...
 

I know this topic is ancient, but I just noticed that I never posted a link to the video of the experiment. Here it is:
http://youtu.be/Xup5blwRS2U

Jack

 
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