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Discussions > Espresso > blends > Lighter than...  
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Frost
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Frost
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Posted Wed Apr 2, 2014, 9:30am
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

A clear concise definition of Under-roasted and Under-developed would be helpful; It is a real thing, not just lighter or darker roasted.

The analogy to wine making might be: ... at what point does the taster proclaim, 'this is not wine, it is just fermented grape juice!'
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clm
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Posted Wed Apr 2, 2014, 10:26am
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

Thanks Buckley & ljguitar - I've only begun reading a little about roasting.  I read somewhere on Sweet Maria's site that the drum roasters could extract more fuller roasts than air poppers, but I hear you.  I've invested a lot this past year in my coffee pursuits, and I don't regret any of it, but a drum roaster is not in the budget right now.  So thanks very much for your input about the air popper method, as it sounds like a relatively inexpensive way to get started and learn a lot at the same time.  Sorry for not moving this thread over to the home roasting forum, but do you think that SM's inexpensive popper kit would be a good place to start?
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Frost
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Frost
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Location: Sierra
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Roaster: Poppery I w/variac, MET, BT
Posted Wed Apr 2, 2014, 10:39am
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

I've been roasting with an air popper since ...well... 1984.
When you said you weren't interested in doing it this way, ...well I agree the method is not suited for everyone.
With what it takes to get good profile control on one, (like to avoid underdeveloped...) it is even more so.

But it is a quick, cheap, easy way to jump into the roasting rabbit hole....
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clm
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Posted Wed Apr 2, 2014, 10:52am
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

I love a good glass of red wine.  (I have trouble finding decent red wines too, unless I order from K&L and Fedex them over.  Wine is a fragile, living, breathing thing, and shipping is ruinous.)  Back to the roast - I agree w/Frost, I've not been too specific about the degree of lightness here.  What's frustrating, is searching for hours for highly rated coffees, paying $22 for 12 oz, with almost all of them exhibiting a very acidic quality that (at least to my taste) over-powers any underlying fruitiness, or distinguishing characteristics of the bean's origin.  I'm not faulting the roaster - maybe this is something I must learn to distinguish through repeated sampling, or better yet, by trying to roast myself and finding that very sweet, fine line, between under roasted and just right.  My very uneducated guess is that it just may not be possible to roast lightly with any measurable success on a repeated basis.  Each batch may need particular tweaking making a commercial effort less successful than say, the consistency achieved by over-roasting.  I'm not sure that I agree that a lighter roast will allow the bean's origin to shine through - while I'm definitely not championing a darker roast, my personal tastes (which are far from refined) indicate that a properly roasted bean will pull through flavors more pronounced than under roasting ever would.  Nuts and spices, for example, have more pronounced flavors when roasted - my guess is it changes the chemistry of the oils, heightening their flavors.  So, why would anyone want to under-develop this effect?
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Frost
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Frost
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Posted Wed Apr 2, 2014, 11:03am
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

You live in Hawaii, (lucky you!) the only state where coffee grows. Have you had any luck with local sources where you can see, smell and try the coffee before you buy?  I have some great tiny Maui Mokka beans.
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
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Posted Wed Apr 2, 2014, 12:24pm
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

clm Said:

Wine is a fragile, living, breathing thing . . .

Posted April 2, 2014 link

And so is coffee.

Are you familiar with the Rule of Fifteens?

Babbie's Rule* of Fifteens:
-- Green (unroasted) coffee beans should be roasted within 15 months, or they go stale.
-- Roasted coffee beans should be ground within 15 days, or they go stale.
-- Ground coffee should be used within 15 minutes, or it goes stale.

Cheers,
Jason

* OK, so there are very few hard-and-fast "rules" -- more like "rules-of-thumb."

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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Buckley
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Posted Wed Apr 2, 2014, 5:01pm
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

So...Sweet Maria sells a West Bend Air Crazy.  I know nothing about it but I would trust SM to sell something appropriate, since they are in the business of selling green beans to roasters.  
In other news, the West Bend Poppery and Poppery II are two heirloom popper machines that are every air roaster's favorite.  They can often be found on Ebay but their prices are bid up too high due to popularity.  It is best to find them at a yard sale or a thrift shop.
B
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ljguitar
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ljguitar
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Posted Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:34am
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

clm Said:

Thanks Buckley & ljguitar - I've only begun reading a little about roasting.  I read somewhere on Sweet Maria's site that the drum roasters could extract more fuller roasts than air poppers, but I hear you.  I've invested a lot this past year in my coffee pursuits, and I don't regret any of it, but a drum roaster is not in the budget right now.  So thanks very much for your input about the air popper method, as it sounds like a relatively inexpensive way to get started and learn a lot at the same time.  Sorry for not moving this thread over to the home roasting forum, but do you think that SM's inexpensive popper kit would be a good place to start?

Posted April 2, 2014 link

Hi clm…

If the inexpensive kit you are referring to is the Stovetop Corn popper - sure it's an inexpensive way to start. And the results are more 'drum-like' than 'air-roasted'. There is an 'if'. If you have an outdoor location (or an indoor restaurant sized/strength commercial stove hood), and a proper steady heat source roasting with a stove top roaster is a good way to go. If you don't have an outdoor/portable heat source, then you have to acquire one of those propane burners used for Turkey Roasters, and elevate it so you can situate yourself adjacent to it and crank the handle for 15 minutes.

After doing air roasting for several years and switching to drum roasted, it actually took me about 3 months to re-appreciate drum roasted coffee. My tastebuds were accustomed to the brighter flavor of air roasted coffees. I got better than average results both ways, but they are definitely different flavor profiles.

Air roasted to me has noticably brighter overtones whereas drum roasting has stronger/deeper undertones.

Hope you continue to grow and enjoy your coffees...


°

 
L  a  r  r  Y          J

<°)))><
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clm
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Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 86
Location: Hawaii
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Mypressi
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Posted Fri Apr 4, 2014, 9:19pm
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

Frost Said:

You live in Hawaii, (lucky you!) the only state where coffee grows. Have you had any luck with local sources where you can see, smell and try the coffee before you buy?  I have some great tiny Maui Mokka beans.

Posted April 2, 2014 link

I'm living a dream, grateful for it too....amazingly, it can be hard to find good beans here too.  Maybe my taste buds are failing me, but I remember Kona coffee from 20 years ago that was outstanding.  I've oft wondered why I can't seem to find the Kona of my memories - has the strain/variety been diluted over the years?  Have soils/conditions changed?  When I ask farmers about this, they tell me that they used to only sell the higher rated beans, but as more people began farming, they no longer sorted beans and started selling everything they grew.  

Kau and Puna coffees are getting high ratings in reviews, but I'm not wowed.  Kona is under assault from a beetle that's driven prices to as much as $80/lb.  The Kona I like best is from a grower with a small 5-acre farm who sorts and sun dries her beans.  I've had some very nice roasts from Maui in the past, and also Kauai, but as they get more available, the quality seems to deteriorate.  You can sample coffees at the farmer's markets but I'm unable to judge them accurately until I get them home and brew them for myself (I need a cupping course).

I did mention that I have 4 small trees in my garden - I got a few first flowers this year!
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clm
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Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 86
Location: Hawaii
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Mypressi
Grinder: OE LIdo
Drip: Hario, Aeropress
Posted Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:41pm
Subject: Re: Lighter than roasted
 

I'll be on the lookout for one of the WB Poppery's.   I noticed that the stove top popper sold by SM's is made of aluminum.  DCCoffeeman responded to my concerns about the Mypressi bowl being made of aluminum, that the current body of scientific evidence shows no link between aluminum cookware and Alzheimers.  The Poppery probably has an aluminum bowl too?
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