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A strange theroy I heard of
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Discussions > Espresso > blends > A strange theroy...  
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Pazu
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Posted Sat Mar 8, 2014, 8:58am
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

Buckley Said:

A terse statement such as "espresso is blended, not roasted" can be taken as a logical statement containing two propositions (blended versus roasted), in order to imply that one supercedes the other.

In this case, we may infer that, of the two processes, good blending is rarer, harder to achieve, and/or more important in producing quality espresso, than the effects of roast.

OF COURSE the quality of the roasting is important, but we may also infer that, by comparison, good roasting is more common (perhaps not, thanks to *$), and more available than 'wizardry' in blending.  We can further infer that even excellent quality in roasting may produce only mediocre espresso if not blended well.

This opens up a whole argument about the current practice of offering single origin roasts as espresso drinks versus blends.
The ability of the espresso extraction to 'open up' the complex taste profile of a roast compared to brewing allows one to really 'get into' the total character of the interaction of the bean (ie, plantation, variety, climate) and the roast of a single origin.

If I may offer my own preference, I am not as curious and analytical as I am hedonistic and indulgent when I make a cup of espresso; therefore, I shun most single-origin offerings as subpar and go for the blend, if I have a choice.

B

Posted February 21, 2014 link

You have the point but single origin espresso with good beans are wonderful as well :)
Just tasted the SOE in Taiwan last week, Fika Fika Cafe, winner of Nordic Roaster 2013
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Pazu
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Posted Sat Mar 8, 2014, 9:03am
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

DanoM Said:

You need to upgrade your coffee house if all they can tell you about the beans is they are "French beans" or "Italian beans".  LOL  Unfortunately that may be the case at too many places.


Espresso Blend = a blend of beans roasted to compliment each other in the espresso cup
Espresso Roast = an (American?) nomenclature for roasted beans that are cooked/burned until they look like a pitch black espresso.  These roasts typically make a horrible espresso in the cup.  I think the idea is these are so dark and burned that even drip coffee will taste like a terrible $tarbuck$ shot!

Posted March 6, 2014 link

He was not talking about the espresso roast, I know your meaning of that dark oily beans :)
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Pazu
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Posted Sat Mar 8, 2014, 9:07am
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

Dayglow Said:

I suppose it could depend on how you read the statement as a coffee for espresso can be made from combining numerous bean origins for a "profile" and batch roasting the whole lot together or -if you have the ability- each origin bean batch can be roasted to its own set amount and then the roasted beans combined in the desired proportions with the other origins so that no bean is "overroasted" or "underroasted" for the desired profile for that origin.

Posted March 6, 2014 link

I know roasters doing each of the above.
roasting different beans to the optimal level before blending and blending the raw beans before roasting in one go
I think the latter one require more skill in roasting.
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pstam
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pstam
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Posted Mon May 5, 2014, 6:39am
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

z0mbie Said:

Not sure what you mean.  

The very nature of blending is to develop flavor profiles of roasts that would otherwise be inferior as an SO roast.

Posted February 21, 2014 link

Originally, the words

"Espresso is blended, not roasted"

was said by someone here, maybe not coming now.


Since I had been supporting such an understanding very much, and quoted it all the time, even in the Chinese forums, as well as in our Barista Training courses.

It seems that not many people support it, really?  Maybe I am wrong.

And, due to the fact that I could not find the original words, and no more people support it, I would announce that it was my words.  If the guy ever here said it announce its right, I would quit.

 
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 1:56am
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

Definitions are only worth diffusing much less debating if they actually change how you think about something.

On the case of espresso, why are we debating what someone else's definition if it stands no chance of changing anyone's opinion of anything?

This is just coffee babble.  I have absolutely no confusion what espresso is.
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pstam
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 2:18am
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

In fact, this sentence says that,
"If the blend is not correctly blended, roast cannot imprve it."
Only if this was said, because many roasters did not have good blending technique, so they roasted their espresso blends to very dark, or even oily degree.

 
Peter in Beijing
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IMAWriter
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Posted Fri May 30, 2014, 9:13pm
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

Buckley Said:

The ability of the espresso extraction to 'open up' the complex taste profile of a roast compared to brewing allows one to really 'get into' the total character of the interaction of the bean (ie, plantation, variety, climate) and the roast of a single origin.


B

Posted February 21, 2014 link

Buckley,
My posting is a mild disagreement with your statement regarding the ability of an espresso extraction to "open up" a complex taste profile.
This is certainly true for SOME varietals, but as an avid Kalita brew lover as well as espresso on a Strega, I can say with certainty that many SO coffee I have roasted and purchased were significantly more defined, flavors more easily delineated in the larger cup. In some cases, the Kalita was significantly sweeter, as well.

That said, the coffees I extracted in both manners was the same, meaning roasted for dual purpose. Perhaps some coffees roasted using differing roast profiles would present something else. That said, I prefer no roast taste in either espresso nor Kalita, though I eschew the ultra light roasts popular with many, even those purchased from recognized artisanal roasting companies.

Back on topic, I'll take a swing at the OP's question. I interpret it to be that if a green blend is just not skillfully put together, no matter how it's roasted,. light. darker, fast, slow, etc final result will not equal the sum of it's parts.

 
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RichardCoffee
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Posted Sat May 31, 2014, 6:53am
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

Dr. John of Josuma Coffee, creator of Malabar Gold makes speeches and gives seminars at gatherings of coffee professionals around this subject.  His argument is, of course, that espresso is only a blend - in fact a blend that must contain some high quality robusta.  This definition encompasses his Malabar Gold.  He says, what many of us call espresso when it's an SOE is, in fact, only a very strong coffee.  Of course, it is a blend that must be roasted and he recommends a certain roast for his blend which you can buy from him either as greens or as roasted.
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boar_d_laze
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Posted Sat May 31, 2014, 7:38am
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

(Dr. John) says what many of us call espresso when it's an SOE is, in fact, only a very strong coffee.

Hor$e$hit.  Espresso is neither a roast nor a blend, it's an extraction.

Ironically, so called "espresso" roasts never make acceptable espresso.  On the other hand, when brewed, they make for a brew with a burnt, bitterness many people unfortunately associate with espresso.  

There are plenty of good SOs which make great espresso, and plenty of blends which make great brew. The May bean from H-B's Roast and Learn project, "Jacinto Titirico" from Bolivia, pulls like a good, traditional, Italian style espresso blend. It's all body, chocolates and nuts even roasted as light as C+. What would Dr. John make of that?  

Moral of the Story: Don't let anyone tell you what you like.    

Rich
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RichardCoffee
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Posted Sat May 31, 2014, 12:50pm
Subject: Re: A strange theroy I heard of
 

boar_d_laze Said:

Hor$e$hit.  Espresso is neither a roast nor a blend, it's an extraction.

There are plenty of good SOs which make great espresso, and plenty of blends which make great brew. The May bean from H-B's Roast and Learn project, "Jacinto Titirico" from Bolivia, pulls like a good, traditional, Italian style espresso blend. It's all body, chocolates and nuts even roasted as light as C+. What would Dr. John make of that?  

Rich

Posted May 31, 2014 link

But, he's a nuclear physicist!!!  I'm just saying.......
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