Posted Tue Nov 8, 2011, 6:11am Subject: Interesting blog over at Transcend which agrees with recent experience ...
So I've been trying out new espresso blends of late and haven't really landed on anything that I really like (which is more of the old traditional "bitter/sweet" espresso blend). The last couple though have caused me concern. A friend of mine was looking to offer some "specialty coffee" espresso beans and was sourcing from various places. The guy knows nothing about espresso or coffee, but in any event had several roasters send him samples. He settled on a particular roaster, and sent me 3 sample blends to try out.
All 3 were fermented. The first was so obviously fermented that when the bag was opened and I put my nose near it to smell the aroma at first it was alright, but after a few seconds I wanted to throw up. The next two bags had seemingly lessor levels of fermentation. I then decided to drop a few shots, and the same held true for the taste profiles, very sour. At one point I was wondering if my espresso machine was simply longing to be cleaned as I couldn't fathom that all 3 bags would be that bad. I mentioned it to my friend and he mentioned it to the roaster, who of course was offended that someone didn't like his espresso. Plus my friend seemed shocked the roaster wanted $10 a lb for most of his coffees and kept telling me he was looking for something priced along the lines of that great "Kimbo" espresso that he can offer people (at which point I promptly exited stage left and have not asked him about his coffee endeavours since for fear he may ask me to try more blends).
Several weeks ago, after posting here looking for espresso's to try, I was pointed to Social Coffee. Given it is nearby, I thought I'd give a bag of their "People's Daily" a try, the one that scored a "94" ...
Opened it up, and there was that somewhat funky fruity smell again (nowhere near as bad as the sample bags mind you). Dropped a shot, and, yup, tastes fermented to me. It was just not an espresso I could drop shots of and drink on its own.
Interestingly, when a latte or cap was made, the fermentation seemed to add a "sweetness" to the drink and it wasn't bad at all. Not really my cup of tea, but my wife and friends thought the latte's were excellent and "didn't even need sugar" in their words.
So the other day I had emailed an old friend who's very knowledgeable about specialty coffee and recanted my experience with Social and others. He said he agreed on the Social coffee in particular, having cupped it and believed it was fermented and that it was actually the taste profile the roaster was after.
The other day he flipped me an interesting blog post from Transcend which seemed to hit the nail on the head ...
In particular, this quote resonated with my recent experience ...
I have watched coffees that have "ferment" as a clear and present defect, be marketed as "fruity and wild" and their is seemingly a growing market for this flavour profile. Some would argue that if the market wants this flavour profile, then it isn't a negative characteristic, and perhaps they are right. But until the specialty coffee industry decides as a whole, to alter the quality standards currently associated with defects such as ferment, coffee presenting such defects should not be celebrated.
So I'm curious, are you guys experiencing the same phenomena? I.e., finding more and more coffee blends with a defect (fermentation in particular?) that is sold as specialty coffee?
Are you finding more and more people liking that profile for that matter? Is this an evolution of the specialty coffee market whereby fermentation is going to no longer be seen as a defect but a quality of cup some simply seek out?
Or did I simply wake up so early this morning that I shouldn't be posting such dribble? :)
Posted Tue Nov 8, 2011, 9:13am Subject: Re: Interesting blog over at Transcend which agrees with recent experience ...
Can you characterize what you mean by ferment? Are we talking boozy/yeasty, or overripe fruit esters? I'd see the former as defective pretty much all the time (like bad green, under-roasted), whereas the latter can be pleasant if countered by sweetness - like cascara.
Posted Tue Nov 8, 2011, 2:57pm Subject: Re: Interesting blog over at Transcend which agrees with recent experience ...
SteveRhinehart Said:
Can you characterize what you mean by ferment? Are we talking boozy/yeasty, or overripe fruit esters? I'd see the former as defective pretty much all the time (like bad green, under-roasted), whereas the latter can be pleasant if countered by sweetness - like cascara.
I'd say the former for the 3 bags I was asked to taste. Actually, there was a large inconsistency with the roast colour as well, more than I'd expect (i.e., slightly off colours that you may get with different types of beans that may colour slighly differently with certain roast levels).
The Social was more of the "overripe" variety for sure, but still had too much sourness to it in my opinion. Again, could just be I don't like that sort of taste profile. But the Transcend article seemed to hit the nail on the head with what I was tasting ... interesting blog anyhow.
coffeestork Senior Member Joined: 19 Nov 2004 Posts: 137 Location: Toronto Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rocket Giotto Premium Plus Grinder: Rocky
Posted Thu Nov 10, 2011, 8:12pm Subject: Re: Interesting blog over at Transcend which agrees with recent experience ...
Indeed I thought the post was very interesting and relevant. I have had conversations with home baristas where they don't care if fermentation is a defect or not because they like the taste. I quite didn't agree with this because it enables low quality coffee to be masked through fermentation, essentially making all the coffee taste the same. Like dark roasting coffee to make it all taste the same. I think this is a topic that needs to be brought forward with examples. if consumers don't know what fermentation taste like, than it can easily be sold as incredible wild berry notes. I would very much enjoy some expert examples of coffees that are being sold this way so that consumers can identify them.
Having said that you will see quite a lot of Social reviews on my blog. When I first tried their natural Sidama last year, I really enjoyed it. Given several comments on some threads here, and some offline discussions, I am trying to understand how consumers can know when a natural coffee has certain clean berry notes, while others are from ferment. Haven't come to a conclusion about any particular coffee, but it is something I am looking to understand.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 