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Tempered Sugar/Italian Espresso
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Discussions > Espresso > blends > Tempered...  
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Oldworld_Luke
Senior Member
Oldworld_Luke
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 34
Location: spartanburg, sc
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Romantica/modded...
Grinder: Mazer Major
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Tek
Roaster: 6lb San Fran.
Posted Fri Apr 16, 2010, 1:24am
Subject: Tempered Sugar/Italian Espresso
 

Has anyone here ever tried an espresso blend where the roast is dropped after the sugar melts, and is then reintroduced to the roaster.  I know its uncommon to find on the east coast here in the US, but it does exist.

I have produced it myself, but I would like to try someone other than mines'.

Thanks!

-Luke
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lsjms
Senior Member
lsjms
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 49
Location: Uk

Espresso: Pid Quickmill 0820, Achille
Grinder: Super Jolly
Roaster: Hottop(Manual)
Posted Fri Apr 16, 2010, 2:18am
Subject: Re: Tempered Sugar/Italian Espresso
 

As a home roaster I'm curious to know what on earth you are talking about. Never heard of this.
What sugar? Sugars in the bean?
Are you saying coffee is half roasted, cooled and reroasted?
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Oldworld_Luke
Senior Member
Oldworld_Luke
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 34
Location: spartanburg, sc
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Romantica/modded...
Grinder: Mazer Major
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Tek
Roaster: 6lb San Fran.
Posted Fri Apr 16, 2010, 2:26am
Subject: Re: Tempered Sugar/Italian Espresso
 

Sucrose melts just under 370 degrees, so the idea is to take it just past this, right around the beginning of first crack, and then drop it and cool it to room temperature.  Once the coffee is cooled to the touch, put it back in the roaster, but make sure the roaster rebounds at above waters boiling point (212).  Then continue the roast as normal (the cracks are much quieter in my experience though so be warned!)

I encourage you to try this yourself (AND EXPERIMENT!), the results will surprise you.  Often times the coffee will make mediocre drip or press cups, but does very well as espresso.  I have seen Ethiopian Yirgacheffe that was horrid as a press, but the blueberry flavor it had as espresso overpowered the syrups we were making drinks with!

I have spoken to several other roasters about this method, we concur that it has to do with how sugars form crystals, very similar to candy making.  I do not wish to give away all the theory here, but I will let you know that it is easier to pull espresso with this than other blends, in part because it can tolerate more heat.  I also have theorized that you COULD make better drip coffee with this by changing the grind size and dosage, no longer following the 8g to 4 oz rules, but I have yet to test this.

Have fun!
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lsjms
Senior Member
lsjms
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 49
Location: Uk

Espresso: Pid Quickmill 0820, Achille
Grinder: Super Jolly
Roaster: Hottop(Manual)
Posted Fri Apr 16, 2010, 3:02am
Subject: Re: Tempered Sugar/Italian Espresso
 

Well it all sounds very odd but I am open minded and always prepared to wreck a charge in the name of learning. Interesting as I stalled my first roast not too long ago and chucked it. Never thought to try reroast.

"horrid as a press, but the blueberry flavor it had as espresso overpowered the syrups we were making drinks with!"
This is not the most appealing of descriptions Luke, I take it you are saying it makes a nicer espresso shot than the same coffee roasted otherwise.

"I do not wish to give away all the theory here"
Interesting standpoint given you have told us the method!

Best
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,470
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Apr 16, 2010, 6:43am
Subject: Re: Tempered Sugar/Italian Espresso
 

Never heard of it before, but then again, I generally don't like a "(Southern) Italian roast."

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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Oldworld_Luke
Senior Member
Oldworld_Luke
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 34
Location: spartanburg, sc
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Romantica/modded...
Grinder: Mazer Major
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Tek
Roaster: 6lb San Fran.
Posted Fri Apr 16, 2010, 1:40pm
Subject: Re: Tempered Sugar/Italian Espresso
 

lsjms Said:

Well it all sounds very odd but I am open minded and always prepared to wreck a charge in the name of learning. Interesting as I stalled my first roast not too long ago and chucked it. Never thought to try reroast.

"horrid as a press, but the blueberry flavor it had as espresso overpowered the syrups we were making drinks with!"
This is not the most appealing of descriptions Luke, I take it you are saying it makes a nicer espresso shot than the same coffee roasted otherwise.

"I do not wish to give away all the theory here"
Interesting standpoint given you have told us the method!

Best

Posted April 16, 2010 link

Not ALL of the theory has been given away :P

"This is not the most appealing of descriptions Luke, I take it you are saying it makes a nicer espresso shot than the same coffee roasted otherwise. "

Yes, we tested this with many single origins and 3 blends, the same temp as a single roast against a double roast, and found that every time it produced better espresso, and only once did it produce a decent press.
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yakster
Senior Member
yakster
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 1,043
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina...
Grinder: Vario / Kyocera
Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod
Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /...
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Fri Apr 16, 2010, 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Tempered Sugar/Italian Espresso
 

Hmm, I'd heard of double roasting before, but never with the angle on the melting of the sugar.  I remember reading last year here how Adrian (drdna) on Home-Barista would stop his Behmor at first crack, allow it to cool, then re-roast as a way to control the endpoint.

I also found a scant mention to "twice-roasted" in this Bean There, Roasted That, Part Two article by Terry Montague on CoffeeGeek.

I once had the Behmor drum come off during a roast and had to use this technique, but now I'm tempted to try this on purpose, though this thread on Opinions for re-roasting? doesn't have a high opinion of it at all.  There's also a What is 'double roasting'???? thread that's a little more extensive and informative.

I'm interested to hear more about this.

 
-Chris

LMWDP # 272
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