CoffeeGeek - Espresso: Espresso Blends, Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

Espresso: Espresso Blends
Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

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Discussions > Espresso > blends > Alternative to...

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Iluvdabean
Senior Member

Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,060
Location: California
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600

Posted Sat Jan 2, 2010, 11:24pm
Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

espressoaddict Said:

Great shot!

How did it taste is what's important.

Also, not sure if you have tried their dolce served at their cafe in Seattle to compare. If not, they are dark red in crema appearance. Maybe it is because they brew their shots at 203.5 F. Just looked at your setup and it looks like you used a Gaggia Classic for that shot. Knowing this blend is finicky, did you have trouble dialing in the temp or do you have a PID?

I'm going to try to pickup some dolce later and give it another shot on my non-PID Silvia.

Posted January 2, 2010 link

No I dont have a pid...yeah not bad pics for an iphone....thank you. Those both went into a Latte. The roast date is 12/9...and its changeing from when i first got it but I have 4 lbs of green to run through my Behmor.

canon
Senior Member

Joined: 9 May 2006
Posts: 409
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Faema Legend
Grinder: Versalab M3, Mazzer Robur-E
Roaster: Hottop B

Posted Sun Jan 3, 2010, 2:37am
Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

Steve, Vivace Dolce is one of my top two favorites. The other being Moores Palermo. Both of them beating out Black Cat in my opinion.

I am gathering all the material I can on roasting. I still can't decide on a roaster but the Behmor is one of my top three. Since you have already tried roasted Dolce I would be extremely interested in your assessment in comparison with the Dolce that you roast in your Behmor.

It is 4:30 AM and I am sipping a Dolce based cappuccino and it is delicious. I use about 19-20gms coffee in a triple bottomless PF and pull at around 202.5F and mix with around 10 oz of steamed milk. Delcious!

Iluvdabean Said:

Posted January 2, 2010 link

Iluvdabean
Senior Member

Posted Sun Jan 3, 2010, 2:10pm Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

Well I havent done any of the Dolce green beans in the Behmore yet but I will. I expect it will be fine. I dont dose when I make my espresso...I fill it to the top, distributing it a little as I fill it...level it off, tamp to 30 lbs and try to stay at 25-30 seconds for a double.. All I know is it tastes great.After two years my steam valve is leaking,even after cleaning..and taking out and cleaning,so a new one is coming and I will put it it. I cant fault this machine really and it does make great shots...I know people talk about quick recycle time with the bolier and thats true but I have found it doesnt really get warm unti 15 or more minutes have gone by.

espressoaddict
Senior Member

Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 346
Location: Seattle
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia V3 (Primary)...
Grinder: Baratza Vario 2009 and...
Vac Pot: None
Drip: Melitta Single Cup, Bodum...

Posted Mon Jan 4, 2010, 12:07pm Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

For the VERY first time, pulled a couple shots using Dolce with 4 days rest using my Silvia and Vario. So far, the pulls came out nice and rich with crema and flowed steadily to generate the following shot featured below. Keep in mind, I've had problems zeroing in the optimal temp when I was using a Gaggia with PID. However, I'm having better success brewing an optimal temperature by just temp surfing. I've also provided a photo of my Vario to provide reference what grinder settings were used for this shot. Note the basket used was a Synesso 18 gram ridgeless. The grinds were filled to the top, leveled and applied about 25 lbs of tamp pressure. To target the same extraction time Vivace uses, I timed the brew button to run for 24 secs before stopping. (Click for larger image)

Posted Mon Jan 4, 2010, 12:11pm Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

Keep in mind, this setting is just provided as a reference for this shot, in case some are curious what settings I used. (Click for larger image)

Posted Mon Jan 4, 2010, 12:33pm Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

I am drinking Dolce as I read your post. It has been in the freezer for a couple of weeks. I opened one of the 8 oz bags yesterday and not knowing what to expect after being in the freezer. I don't understand the chemistry of it but I can tell you it is better now that it was when I first got it. The top of the cappuccino looks and smells like caramel and tastes like the best dessert one could ask for. Every sip is extraordinary. I prefer it to Black Cat without question and I need to place another order before I run out. The last half dozen drinks have been incredible.

Posted Mon Jan 4, 2010, 1:27pm Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

Cool! I'm not sure about being better than Black Cat, but it (Dolce) sure lines up as in the same league as Black Cat. And I'm referencing the results when I pulled cat on my Gaggia awhile back using an older MDF grinder. I'll have to order some Black Cat again and re-evaluate my comparison using the same machine and grinder. The results will be different knowing I'm using a better grinder. Just wondering, but you guys noted to buy Dolce and make espresso milked-based drinks. I'm sure you have very good reasons and that is fine. However, Dolce is more suited for straight espresso and the other Vita blend Vivace sells is designed specifically for espresso milked-based drinks. Having used both being Dolce and Vita myself as a base for milked-based drinks, found the Vita to have more power in cutting through the milk. Actually too powerful to my expectations, even with 6 ounces of steamed milk. Vita is probably on the top of my list of ideal espresso to use for milked-based drinks. I'm sure there are many out there, but just means it does wonders when paired with steamed milk. My personal preference is to drink Dolce as a straight shot, but since you guys are buying in bulk I can picture the practical reasons as having the option to drink it straight or in milk as an alternate option. On the other hand, Vita may do well with milk, but probably not too good as a straight shot like Dolce. If that is the reason, that makes sense.

jthor
Senior Member

Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 64
Location: NYS
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jan 4, 2010, 6:33pm Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

i am noticing a bit of grind waste on the floor of the vario; is that normal?

Iluvdabean
Senior Member

Posted Mon Jan 4, 2010, 6:34pm Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

The Black Cat I had two years ago was better than the new stuff...I think they lost it myself..Klatch and Dolce to me are excellent..I love Vivace Dolce though its my all time favorite.

Posted Mon Jan 4, 2010, 8:27pm
Subject: Re: Alternative to Black Cat Espresso

jthor Said:

i am noticing a bit of grind waste on the floor of the vario; is that normal?

Posted January 4, 2010 link

In 90 percent of the time, no.

What you are seeing is the worst case scenario for my daily usage. It was a very busy morning and was in a hurry to dial in grinds for both drip and Espresso. While doing this, I ground directly into my fingers to test the fineness and allowed the spent grounds to go directly into coffee container.

However, I do want to note regardless of the situation in general a minimal amount of grounds will still make there way to the bottom of the container or front unless you are never in a hurry or use a yogurt cup as a doser, as some have done. But that is not realistic for me most especially in the morning. I MUST STRESS that the mess although very minimal, in contrast to other grinders I've used is less messy.

Notice the container the Vario rests on in the photo? I was experimenting using the container for several reasons. One is to allow organizing some barista tools in the side container. Sitting on the container provides easier access to the grinder. It's not easier to pull slide the grinder in any direction without having to lift the grinder or minimize putting stress on the rubber feat. Lastly, the container provides protection from moisture and accidental spills on the counter-top.

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