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Discussions > Espresso > blends > Vacuum Canisters  
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brokencup
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brokencup
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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Posted Thu Mar 11, 2004, 8:10pm
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

I've just scanned the thread. Last posting was 5 days ago but I'll put in my two cents worth anyway. I have one of those food saver vacuum machines and store my coffee in air tight bags. IMO the difference between a bag with the air vacuumed out and a vacuum canister is significant. The canister as more empty volume than does a bag, which fits closely around the beans. As we know nature abhors a vacuum and fills it with whatever it can suck out of the beans. Thus, the bags, I think are vastly superior.

Bob
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DrHog
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Posted Thu Mar 11, 2004, 9:36pm
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

Bob,

Your theory makes a lot of sense to me.  The Foodsaver could come in handy for a lot of other things I toss in the fridge as well.  Just curious--once you vac-seal the beans, do you store them in the freezer, fridge, or room temp?

Thanks for your thoughts
DR
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brokencup
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brokencup
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Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

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Grinder: Cimbali Junior, Infinity
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Posted Wed Mar 17, 2004, 3:55pm
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

I've heard that freezing roasted beans is not a good idea but have no experience myself. I buy a weeks' worth at a time at my local roaster. In my case this is 2 lbs. It is something I look forward too, each week. I usually end up with 4 1/2 lb packages of different coffees which I vacuum and store in a cool dark place (aka my kitchen cabinet above my grinder '-) ).

I highly recommend the Foodsaver for all sorts of things but IMO their vac cannisters are not worth a hoot. Buy the Foodsaver only if you can leave it on the counter. If you have to store it, you will not use it. Trust me on this.

Bob
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DrHog
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004
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Location: Arizona
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Posted Wed Mar 17, 2004, 6:32pm
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

I scored the Foodsaver from Costco last week.  So far I have used it for several food items as well as coffee.  I really like it.  I go through maybe a pound a week, which is roughly 3 refills of the hopper on my espresso machine.  After each refill, I've been trimming the Foodsaver bag down and reusing it.  Works great.  Even the canister (included in the package) is getting used--keeping bagel chips fresh!

Thanks for the tips,
DR
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Jitterbeans
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Posted Wed Mar 17, 2004, 6:46pm
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

I am pretty new to the home roasting gig. The first few batches that I roasted, I placed in a vacuum canister and used the Food Saver to evacuate the air. This was an experiment to see how much the beans actually ougassed. Now I know that the canister will hold a seal because I have tested it by just pumping out the air to see if it leaked. After placing the coffee in the canister overnight, the next morning there was no vaccuum left to release which would indicate that there is quite a bit of CO2 coming off of the beans. It also reminds me of the old chemistry lab experiment where you pour CO2 into a beaker to extinguish a flame. The point is, since the CO2 is heavier than air, while the beans are in ANY canister with a lid, the CO2 will force out the air, so oxidation isn't an issue (at least until you spill the CO2 out of the canister).
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ljguitar
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ljguitar
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Posted Wed Mar 17, 2004, 9:56pm
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

Jitterbeans Said:

--- The point is, since the CO2 is heavier than air, while the beans are in ANY canister with a lid, the CO2 will force out the air, so oxidation isn't an issue (at least until you spill the CO2 out of the canister).

Posted March 17, 2004 link

While not a new proposition...it depends on some assumptions, which are not exactly scientific.

The C02 which is outgassing does not stratify into layers in the jar, and the oxygen doesn't just evacuate the jar...rather it would dillute the C02. While it might slow some of the oxidation, it will not stop it. C02 doesn't force oxygen out, rather mixes with it...

We are not momentarily pouring C02 into the jar as in extinguishing candles, rather 'leaking' it into the container where it mixes with the air left in the container (vacuum canisters do not form a complete nor perfect vacuum).

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DEchelbarger
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DEchelbarger
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
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Espresso: Solis SL-70
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Roaster: RK Drum, I-roast, manual...
Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004, 6:31am
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

I remembered this thread when I stumbled upon an accidental experiment yesterday.  I had roasted some coffee about 16 days ago.  After degassing I put it in a vacuum canister like I always do.  At the time, however, I separated out a small amount, that I was going to use to make a cup and for whatever reason left it in the bag which was obscured in the cupboard.  I found it yesterday and had the opportunity to compare it with the coffee that had been vacuum stored.

To the taste it was flat, but the curious thing was that since I use a manual maker where I pour water over the rounds, the cupboard coffee did not foam at all; whereas the coffee stored the same length of time from the same roast in the vacuum canister foamed mightily!  Storing coffee in a vacuum canister has some effect -- and in this case it would appear to help preserve the coffee.  Coffee in the canister was very good!  Full City Roast.  Thought I'd pass it along.
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cafedj
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Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004, 7:19am
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

Did you keep the vacuum canister in a cupboard or the freezer?
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ljguitar
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ljguitar
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
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Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004, 8:00am
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

Dechelbarg Said:

--- Storing coffee in a vacuum canister has some effect -- and in this case it would appear to help preserve the coffee.  Coffee in the canister was very good!  Full City Roast.  Thought I'd pass it along.

Posted March 23, 2004 link

Hi David and other vacuum enthusiasts...
The missing - and truly scientific part of the test is...blind taste testing fresh roasted coffee of the same type - identically roasted, in side by side taste tests with the 16 day old vacuum packed beans, and the non-vacuum packed beans...by a panel of neutral participants.

All we have heard so far is that coffee which is vacuum packed and held past it's prime will taste better than if it is not vacuum packed and held past it's prime. But how does the vacuum packed coffee 16 days old taste compared to identically prepared coffee which was roasted...say yesterday?

By the way...
If you test your vacuum packed coffee 16 days old and find it similar enough to a 2 day identical roast, then of course you will be able to save tons of money by purchasing your coffee at the supermarket...in vacuum packages. I noticed the other day they have lots of it for about the price a pound I roast mine for.


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L  a  r  r  Y          J

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DEchelbarger
Senior Member
DEchelbarger
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 416
Location: Negaunee, MI
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Solis SL-70
Grinder: Macap M 4, Rocky,...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos, Nicro
Drip: pour over, Chemex, FR Press,...
Roaster: RK Drum, I-roast, manual...
Posted Tue Mar 23, 2004, 8:59am
Subject: Re: Vacuum Canisters
 

Someone asked where I store the vacuum canister beans.  In the cupboard, out of the sun.

I think I'll try that experiment.  I'm out of town for a week but when I get back I think I'll roast a batch, store some in the cupboard and vacuum the same amount and then take it to my local coffee shop roaster and let him do the blind test -- he and his son.  Both are cuppers.

I'll be interested in how it works.  How  long do you think I should let them sit after roasting?  


One of the reasons I'm interested, is that I like to hang onto some beans that aren't my normal cup -- I want a given taste from time to time.  Right now I roast in a manual popper and where I live I have to pick the right day if I want to do it outside.  Cold.  Very Cold.  Windy.  Very Windy.  Harsh.  Very Harsh.  Hanging onto beans is more of an issue for me now, then it will be when my Iroast arrives.  Also I want to hang onto the decaf beans longer -- need to have them around but don't go through them very quickly.

Thanks for your interest.  I will report my results.  It seems that the vacuum packed beans still have CO2 whereas the others did not.  I'm assuming that is what creates the "head."
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