dLico Senior Member Joined: 5 Nov 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Costa Rica Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Astoria Grinder: Astoria
Posted Tue Feb 19, 2008, 7:54pm Subject: Milk question
I know this must be a real basic question, but as I said before, there is very little oportunity in CR to get a good barista training! I was speaking to one of the most famous baristas here in my country, and he said, that there was no difference between the frothing for a Latte and a Cappucino. So, that got me confused, because I thought they were supposed to be different. He basically said that Latte just has more milk in the cup, is that correct? I serve my capuccinos with a thicker foam, and the Lattes with a more velvety texturized milk. I know this is really simple, I was just wondering... kindda wanting to hear more opinions on the subject... please... TXS D Lico
IceBarista Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2008 Posts: 21 Location: Iceland Expertise: Pro Barista
Posted Mon Mar 3, 2008, 3:34am Subject: Re: Milk question
The perfect cappucino is supposed to be 1/3 espresso, 1/3 milk and 1/3 foam. Latte is just supposed to have, at most, around 3mm thick foam on top, at least according to the way I've been taught. Latte is larger then cappucino, so it is natural that it has more milk, but a lot less foam.
There are about a hundred different definitions for each term, including one that says that a cappuccino is a type of latte, not a separate drink, and another that says that if you double the recipe for a cappuccino it becomes a latte, because a cappuccino is made with one shot of espresso. The consensus amongst the baristi elite seems to be that you can make whatever you what and call it whatever you want, and you shouldn't be restricted to definitions or recipes. If you follow that all drinks should be made with microfoam, the drink of thirds becomes a bit of an anomaly. Do you start out with twice as much milk as espresso, ending up with four times as much when you microfoam it, or do you start out with the same amount of milk as espresso, and froth it up to twice as much volume? The answer seems to be 'yes', as 'experts' will insist, depending on who you ask, that one or the other are true. And 'no' it seems, because some will tell you that neither are true. I'd thunk that they'd have learned that consistency was the one thing that Starbucks provided that made people flock back. If we could establish some consistency across the independents, they would be just as comfortable walking into a Klatch, Gimme, Vein, Intelly, or your shop. But hey, go download the Italian's official description of a cappuccino, and keep that handy. Less milk, call it a Macchiatto, more, a Latte.
The INEI's (the world's only state certified cappuccino) states that it's, and this is a Google translation of the Italian .pdf, so as many grains of salt as you need: "According testing Conducted by The National Italian Espresso Cappuccino quality and respectful of tradition composed of 25 ml expressed And 100 ml of milk mounted steam. At the base of Italian Cappuccino's Certificate Italian Espresso always a certificate, an espresso Prepared in accordance with the rules provided in the certification Brand Italian Espresso"
Which I interpret thusly: The Cappucinno Quality shall be , respectful of tradition and the National Italian Espressp Certification, 25 ml (.85 oz) of espresso topped by 100 ml (3.4 oz) of steamed milk. The espresso used as a base for this drink should be an espresso prepared to the INEI's certification standard Note: A four to one ratio of steamed milk to espresso, or a two-fifths to two-fifths to one-fifth froth to milk to espresso ratio if you interpret it as I did, or an even larger froth and milk ratio if you interpret it as 100 ml starting measure of the milk prior to steaming and frothing. In any case, there is a really good argument for either standard here, or the WBC standard. I seriously doubt that you will find either of these standards being adhered to in your average cafe. Even some pf the top cafe's in this country will serve you a minimum of 240 ml (8 oz) if not 360 ml (12 oz). A double cappuccino may very well come in a jug-sized 450 ml (16 oz) tumbler! Without a standard that is accepted throughout the third wave coffee industry, Starbuckese will continue to be the common language spoken by the customer. Don't like it? Speak to those that are responsible for coffee standards in your country.
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