Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Coffee: Questions and Answers
Another coffee freezing question
Commercial Equipment
Nuova Simonelli, La Marzocco, Rancilio. Nationwide installation. Instant financing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > Another coffee...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 4 last page next page
Author Messages
Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Mon Feb 10, 2014, 9:02am
Subject: Another coffee freezing question
 

Sorry to start another thread about this but for some reason I can't get the forum search to work..

After roasting approx 3 kg of coffee to blend with just for my own drinking, I have a ton of leftover coffee beans I won't get to before it all goes stale.. So I've decided to dive into freezing whole bean.  Here's what I was thinking.

I plan to store for 1 - 4 months in the freezer.  Too long? If not how long have some of you stored your beans with decent results afterwards?  I also plan to split up into 1/4 ziplock freezer bags and store those in a large freezer bag or foil coffee bag for protection from freezer burning.  Vacuum sealing the small bags of course.  Finally what is the best way to thaw the beans?

Sound like a plan?
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,974
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Mon Feb 10, 2014, 7:34pm
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

why did you roast 6 1/2 pounds?  Well, it matters not. 1-4 mos will be fine.  Your plan sounds good.  if you don't own a deep freezer, put them in the coldest part of your frost-free freezer, away from the opening and closing of the door. For thawing, take out what you need, leaving it sealed in the bag.  Let it come to room temp before opening it, otherwise, moisture in the air will condense on the beans and make you an unhappy camper.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 6:06am
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

emradguy Said:

why did you roast 6 1/2 pounds?  Well, it matters not. 1-4 mos will be fine.  Your plan sounds good.  if you don't own a deep freezer, put them in the coldest part of your frost-free freezer, away from the opening and closing of the door. For thawing, take out what you need, leaving it sealed in the bag.  Let it come to room temp before opening it, otherwise, moisture in the air will condense on the beans and make you an unhappy camper.

Posted February 10, 2014 link

Roughly 2 weeks ago.. :s So it's already on it's way..  I'm still getting good shots out of the beans right now. I'll probably still end up giving some away but I don't wanna let it spoil. I only consume 30 - 40 g a day right now.  

Thanks for eh info emradguy. I'm gonna jump on it tonight.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,675
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 7:19am
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

I used to vac pack in sealed bags etc but I have found that for me, just packing into heavy freezer zip top bags, removing as much air as possible then packing deep in the freezer works fine for me. I go about 4 to 6 weeks while frozen and there is little noticeable loss of quality TO ME, others may feel differently.
To thaw, just put the frozen bag on the counter and do not open until it reaches room temp to avoid condensation forming on the beans. YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 7:22am
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

calblacksmith Said:

I used to vac pack in sealed bags etc but I have found that for me, just packing into heavy freezer zip top bags, removing as much air as possible then packing deep in the freezer works fine for me. I go about 4 to 6 weeks while frozen and there is little noticeable loss of quality TO ME, others may feel differently.
To thaw, just put the frozen bag on the counter and do not open until it reaches room temp to avoid condensation forming on the beans. YMMV!

Posted February 11, 2014 link

Thanks Wayne!

I plan to let thaw overnight and brew in the early hours. Just for thought tho what would you consider a reasonable thaw time?
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
Buckley
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Internet
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 11:55am
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

Burner0000 Said:

Sorry to start another thread about this but for some reason I can't get the forum search to work..

Posted February 10, 2014 link

Dear Burner,

This is because the forum search function is way substandard.  In the future, use Google with the entry 'site:coffeegeek.com' (without the quote marks) plus the terms that you are searching for and google will limit its search to coffeegeek.  Also try home-barista.com for questions on freezing coffee.  

Burner0000 Said:

I also plan to split up into 1/4 ziplock freezer bags and store those in a large freezer bag or foil coffee bag for protection from freezer burning.

Posted February 10, 2014 link

Freezer burn is dehydration caused by inadequate sealing of frozen food.  Even if perfectly sealed, water content sublimates from ice crystals as water vapor and can move around in a sealed freezer bag, resulting in dehydration damage.  I have not heard of anyone having issues with freezer burning of roasted coffee, probably because the water content of roasted coffee is minimal and is intermolecularly bound to proteins and lipids (think Van der Waal attraction).  Of course there is nothing wrong with multiple sealing as long as you have the bags to do it.  It might also contribute to temperature stability in a refrigerator freezer (see below).

Burner0000 Said:

Vacuum sealing the small bags of course.  

Posted February 10, 2014 link

C'mon, Burner!  It can't be so long ago that you posted on the following thread: http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/blends/647368 .  Perhaps you can not search the thread, but surely you remember being a part of the discussion.  Don't you remember my pointing out how useless it is to evacuate a flexible bag full of beans because of the considerable oxygen left in the interstices between beans?  The OP also mentioned that the 'bag saver' pumps do not do a good job in evacuating rigid containers, to which I agree.  Rigid containers can be effectively evacuated, at least on paper, by a sufficiently powerful vacuum pump (which you can make for very little money), but not by bag-savers.

I will agree that sucking the air out of a ziplock bag does feel as if it is making a difference.  The truth, I fear, is that it is an useless gesture.

What happened to the valved foil bags that you were using?

All of your preservation will occur due to lowered temperature and, if you use a refrigerator freezer, that temperature will go radically up-and-down with the defrost cycle, even with the door remaining closed for days on end, which rarely happens (at least, in my kitchen).  If you do not have a chest freezer, you might find a relative or friend who will let you use a little space in theirs.  Some people have proposed putting the bean containers in an insulated lunch bag within the refrigerator freezer to minimize temperature fluctuations.

There is so much variation in home freezer set ups that what works for one person for three months (my maximum) may not work for another.

Buckley
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 12:11pm
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

Buckley Said:

Dear Burner,

This is because the forum search function is way substandard.  In the future, use Google with the entry 'site:coffeegeek.com' (without the quote marks) plus the terms that you are searching for and google will limit its search to coffeegeek.  Also try home-barista.com for questions on freezing coffee.  



Freezer burn is dehydration caused by inadequate sealing of frozen food.  Even if perfectly sealed, water content sublimates from ice crystals as water vapor and can move around in a sealed freezer bag, resulting in dehydration damage.  I have not heard of anyone having issues with freezer burning of roasted coffee, probably because the water content of roasted coffee is minimal and is intermolecularly bound to proteins and lipids (think Van der Waal attraction).  Of course there is nothing wrong with multiple sealing as long as you have the bags to do it.  It might also contribute to temperature stability in a refrigerator freezer (see below).



C'mon, Burner!  It can't be so long ago that you posted on the following thread: http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/blends/647368 .  Perhaps you can not search the thread, but surely you remember being a part of the discussion.  Don't you remember my pointing out how useless it is to evacuate a flexible bag full of beans because of the considerable oxygen left in the interstices between beans?  The OP also mentioned that the 'bag saver' pumps do not do a good job in evacuating rigid containers, to which I agree.  Rigid containers can be effectively evacuated, at least on paper, by a sufficiently powerful vacuum pump (which you can make for very little money), but not by bag-savers.

I will agree that sucking the air out of a ziplock bag does feel as if it is making a difference.  The truth, I fear, is that it is an useless gesture.

What happened to the valved foil bags that you were using?

All of your preservation will occur due to lowered temperature and, if you use a refrigerator freezer, that temperature will go radically up-and-down with the defrost cycle, even with the door remaining closed for days on end, which rarely happens (at least, in my kitchen).  If you do not have a chest freezer, you might find a relative or friend who will let you use a little space in theirs.  Some people have proposed putting the bean containers in an insulated lunch bag within the refrigerator freezer to minimize temperature fluctuations.

There is so much variation in home freezer set ups that what works for one person for three months (my maximum) may not work for another.

Buckley

Posted February 11, 2014 link

I'm still using them. :)  Those are the foil bags I was mentioning earlier in the thread. (Sorry for misleading) Still got about 400 of them.. lol

Yes I remember the thread.  Here's where I am still a bit confused tho which is why I figured vac sealing was more ideal.  The thawing.  If I were to just use the foil bags I am currently using which have between 1/2 - 3/4 lb of beans left inside.  If I were to throw them in with air still in the bag once I thaw won't I end up with condensation inside the bag?  

BTW Thx for the search info. That makes my life easier.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
Buckley
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Internet
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 2:38pm
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

Burner0000 Said:

BTW Thx for the search info. That makes my life easier.

Posted February 11, 2014 link

Roger that.

Maybe I do not follow you completely, but if you do evacuate a flexible bag, yes, you are going to suck out the air and any moisture that is in the air, so there will be less moisture in the sealed bag, overall, when you take it out of the freezer, so it is not a bad thing to evacuate a flex bag.  I just don't fool myself into thinking that evacuation prolongs the storage quality, for the reasons mentioned.

You raise an interesting question, what happens to moisture inside of a sealed container of coffee beans as the system reaches equilibrium temperature?  We assume that the container (thick glass or thin plastic) will warm up first, then any air inside will warm by convection, conduction and some radiation, then the beans will begin to warm.  The moisture will condense onto the coldest surface, but that is not necessarily the beans because of something called specific heat, which is the physical property of how much heat is needed to raise the temperature of a substance.  Without going into pedantic detail, the temperature of the beans in the container is going to rise almost as quickly as the air inside and result in no apparent condensation on the beans.  I have never noticed any condensation on beans that have recently warmed up in a sealed container.

If anyone has sealed beans into a jar in a humid environment, frozen the jar, and then seen condensation on the beans or the inside of the jar after it was removed from the freezer after it warmed up, I would like to know.

Good luck with your storage.

B
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,055
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 2:46pm
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

Buckley Said:

Roger that.

Maybe I do not follow you completely, but if you do evacuate a flexible bag, yes, you are going to suck out the air and any moisture that is in the air, so there will be less moisture in the sealed bag, overall, when you take it out of the freezer, so it is not a bad thing to evacuate a flex bag.  I just don't fool myself into thinking that evacuation prolongs the storage quality, for the reasons mentioned.

You raise an interesting question, what happens to moisture inside of a sealed container of coffee beans as the system reaches equilibrium temperature?  We assume that the container (thick glass or thin plastic) will warm up first, then any air inside will warm by convection, conduction and some radiation, then the beans will begin to warm.  The moisture will condense onto the coldest surface, but that is not necessarily the beans because of something called specific heat, which is the physical property of how much heat is needed to raise the temperature of a substance.  Without going into pedantic detail, the temperature of the beans in the container is going to rise almost as quickly as the air inside and result in no apparent condensation on the beans.  I have never noticed any condensation on beans that have recently warmed up in a sealed container.

If anyone has sealed beans into a jar in a humid environment, frozen the jar, and then seen condensation on the beans or the inside of the jar after it was removed from the freezer after it warmed up, I would like to know.

Good luck with your storage.

B

Posted February 11, 2014 link

Thanks I'm gonna do it tonight.  Last question.  If I were just freeze in a valved foil bag and once frozen grab some coffee out of the bag, flushing it with warm air for maybe 30 seconds and throw back in the freezer. Anything to worry about?
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,974
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Tue Feb 11, 2014, 3:36pm
Subject: Re: Another coffee freezing question
 

Burner0000 Said:

Thanks I'm gonna do it tonight.  Last question.  If I were just freeze in a valved foil bag and once frozen grab some coffee out of the bag, flushing it with warm air for maybe 30 seconds and throw back in the freezer. Anything to worry about?

Posted February 11, 2014 link


flush with warm air?...a problem?...YES!  By all means.  Warm air holds much more moisture than cold air.  This is why you get condensation on the surface of cold things when you introduce them to a warm environment.  the air next to the cold thing condenses. As it does this, the water molecules, previously held in suspension and separated by the gas, get close enough to form droplets. These droplets adhere to the cold surface and make it wet. This is why it's best to only freeze in quantities you will readily thaw as a batch.  Thaw until room temperature is stable.  overnight is best as it's clearly longer than you need and therefore safe. Probably an hour or two is best otherwise, but it'll depend on the temperature differential, airflow, volume of frozen beans, "bag" material used and it's conductivity/heat transferability. Bottom line is...it depends. An engineer could calculate the required time if you can plug in all the data variables, but if you can thaw overnight, then just do that!

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 4 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > Another coffee...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Don't suffer bad espresso
Package deals on the best machines from Izzo, Quick Mill, VBM, La Marzocco & more.
www.clivecoffee.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.37225317955)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+