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Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
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Posted Tue Jul 30, 2013, 4:10am
Subject: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

Looking for people to do a quick measurement and post.  

All you need is a scale (nearest tenth gram works fine), an AeroPress scoop if you have one, and a 1/3 cup measuring cup.  Not looking for a graduated pyrex 1/3 cup, I'm looking for an actual 1/3 cup like you get from a set of measuring cups - basically what you use for baking.

Then, just take a quick level-ish scoop of coffee whole beans (not grounds), and weigh them.  Post the results.

Example:

Coffee: Biggby Best Blend
AeroPress Scoop: 12.7g
1/3 measuring cup scoop: 25.6g

This would be a scoop like you'd do if you were making coffee in the morning.  It doesn't have to be scientifically level, it just shouldn't be heaping - a "quick" level, if you will.

Thanks in advance!
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RussK
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RussK
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Posted Tue Jul 30, 2013, 9:51am
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

Coffee: Café León 211 Main Street Blend

AeroPress Scoop: 13.8g

1/3 measuring cup scoop: 26.2g
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Aug 9, 2013, 6:12am
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

Caribou Coffee La Minita Peaberry.

Wow.

AP Scoop: 15.3g
1/3 measuring cup: 30.9g
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jpender
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jpender
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Posted Fri Aug 9, 2013, 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

An AP scoop is supposed to be 36 cc according to Aerobie but I measured a little over 37 cc with mine, using water. A 1/3 cup measure should be 79 cc but mine measured about 74 cc. Of course getting a reliable measure with these scoops is a crapshoot, especially when trying to level beans. My idea of a "level scoop" might be different than yours.

I took three coffees and measured each with each scoop three times, and then averaged. I had variations greater than 1g between some measurements. Nonetheless the packing densities agreed fairly well between the scoop and the cup.


Peets Major Dickason

AP scoop: 11.9 ± 0.2 g
1/3 measuring cup: 22.6 ± 1.0 g

Packing density: 0.31 ± 0.01 g/cc


Barefoot Yirgacheffe

AP scoop: 15.9 ± 0.2 g
1/3 measuring cup: 30.5 ± 1.0 g

Packing density: 0.42 ± 0.01 g/cc


Blue Bottle Sidama

AP scoop: 18.2 ± 0.4 g
1/3 measuring cup: 36.2 ± 0.4 g

Packing density: 0.49 ± 0.01 g/cc
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Aug 12, 2013, 5:40am
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

My AP scoop comes out to approximately 39ml (39g of 40°F distilled water) level, no meniscus (water cold, scoop room temperature).

The cheapie plastic 1/3 cup scoop I use is pretty much 79g of 40°F distilled water (79ml), no meniscus (water cold, scoop room temperature).  

I've approximated the AP scoop as "around" 1/6 cup, or "around" 2.5 Tbl plus a smidge.

Your Blue Bottle Sidama - is that a fairly light roast?  How's the color of the beans compared to the BareFoot Yirg, or the Peet's?
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jpender
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jpender
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Posted Mon Aug 12, 2013, 9:22am
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

I don't know about the 1/3 cups, but your Aeropress scoop and mine have to be very, very similar in volume. And yet we get a 5% difference when we measure them. So how much difference is there in the bean measurements? Maybe you'd decide my coffee beans were several grams heavier or lighter per scoop?

The Blue Bottle is their Ethiopia SCFCU Peaberry. A pretty light roast, clearly lighter than the Barefoot Yirg (which is of course a lot lighter than the Peet's). That particular bag tasted more like tea than coffee. I think they under roasted it, for my tastes anyways, and it was certainly roasted lighter than the previous bag that I bought. I brewed hot and for a long time and it still didn't quite get all the way there for me.

Do you get the same kind of variation, batch to batch, as a home roaster? Or can you exercise better control?
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Netphilosopher
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Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:01am
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

jpender Said:

I don't know about the 1/3 cups, but your Aeropress scoop and mine have to be very, very similar in volume. And yet we get a 5% difference when we measure them. So how much difference is there in the bean measurements? Maybe you'd decide my coffee beans were several grams heavier or lighter per scoop?..

Posted August 12, 2013 link

LOL - that's why I hate using volumes, but I'm also seeing if there is generalization that might be helpful.  That is my oldest AP scoop, btw.  I have another one that consistently (for whatever reason) measures only 37.8g cold water.

jpender Said:

...Do you get the same kind of variation, batch to batch, as a home roaster? Or can you exercise better control?

Posted August 12, 2013 link

I find that the overall density of the bean is fairly consistent and dependent on roast level.  I have most of this subjective assessment on same coffee (Locally sourced India Giri-region green coffee), where I might get 10# of green to play with at a time.

Dark roasting is around 0.28 density, smaller beans pack a bit tighter (peaberry types and some of the Uganda, Yemen, and Ethiopia varietals), raising the density by a bit.

I did a city roast that was WAY light for me, it was really just barely cinnamon (just right at the end of 1st crack) and very light in color.  That was almost 19g for an AP scoop!

But if I'm roasting to same temp/same time in the roast (using the guideposts of 1st crack end, 2nd crack start, time into 2nd crack, etc.) I find that for a given bean with a given size the density is pretty consistent, with a general tendency for darker roasts to have a lighter density.

On average, I'd guess and say my typical AP scoop is around 13g and around 26g for a 1/3 cup, implying a middle tendency of bean density of around 1/3 (0.333) g/ml (or kg/liter) for a full city + a bit roast.  If I go a bit lighter, I get something in appearance to the La Minita, and in the 15-16g/scoop.
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jpender
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jpender
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Posted Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:31am
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

Netphilosopher Said:

That is my oldest AP scoop, btw.  I have another one that consistently (for whatever reason) measures only 37.8g cold water.

Posted August 12, 2013 link

So it changed? I only did it one time but mine measured 37.6g, the same as your new one.

Netphilosopher Said:

I find that the overall density of the bean is fairly consistent and dependent on roast level.

Posted August 12, 2013 link

What I meant was can you control this from roast to roast with the same beans?

It seems that my favorite local roasters can't do this (or else they choose not to), as batch to batch there are frequently differences. Sometimes I'll go back several days later for another bag of coffee that I loved only to find the new batch roasted very differently. There have even been times when I threw the new coffee into the compost.
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Aug 12, 2013, 12:26pm
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

jpender Said:

So it changed? I only did it one time but mine measured 37.6g, the same as your new one.

...

Posted August 12, 2013 link

I don't know if it changed or if it's just variation.  It's a plastic scoop, not precision metal.  I actually have three but I haven't measured my third one (at the office).  The oldest one is the one that is consistently 39g of cold water, the other one seems about 1 gram less.  The inside diameter is 41-41.5mm or so.  Each mm height variance is ~1.3 gram, so if you overpour the meniscus by a half millimeter, you'll get another half gram.  

The cylindrical part is about 15.5mm tall, then there's what appears to be a hemisphere of same diameter, so the calculated theoretical by dimension is

((4.15*.5)^2 * PI) * 1.55 = 20.97 cc
+
.5 * PI * (4/3) * ((4.15*.5)^3) = 18.7cc

= approximately 39.7 cc

That ain't 36cc, no matter what.  There's a small insert inside the hemisphere.  In my newer one, this insert is a little more proud of the surface.  Is it 1ml proud?  <shrug>

jpender Said:

...What I meant was can you control this from roast to roast with the same beans?
....

Posted August 12, 2013 link

I think I can.  I also believe the big roasters can also do the same.  I don't have data in front of me, but I recall successive batches of *$s pretty consistent (Willow, or Veranda, for example).

Keep in mind I'm using a combo of experience, listening to the roast, and temperature/time.  Some of the roasters (like the semi-automated Java Roaster) have a profile that are very generalized - they have a set time/temperature. For example, I can't load in a 225g batch, hit a specific profile on my Behmor, and get a consistent roast - there's just too much variation (voltage, ambient air, triggering of the afterburner, etc...).  If I'm watching temperature, apply or retard heat at the right times, listening and watching the roast, I can get a very consistent result.

I get better consistency using my BMHG.

Now, I would assume that the intermediate roasters are attempting consistency, so I guess I'm surprised that your local roasters have that much variation.
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jpender
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jpender
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Posted Mon Aug 12, 2013, 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Crowdsource Request - AP Scoop and 1/3 cup mass of Coffee?
 

Netphilosopher Said:

Each mm height variance is ~1.3 gram, so if you overpour the meniscus by a half millimeter, you'll get another half gram.

Posted August 12, 2013 link

So then how are you consistently measuring the new one at 37.8g?

I don't know why I measured it once and just accepted it. I'll bet if I do it a few times it will vary by a couple of grams in either direction.


Netphilosopher Said:

Now, I would assume that the intermediate roasters are attempting consistency, so I guess I'm surprised that your local roasters have that much variation.

Posted August 12, 2013 link

I asked this question of someone working at a well-respected, "List of our Favorite Roasters", place. This was someone behind the cash register, mind you. The line I got was that a matter of seconds in the roasting process can result in a significant difference in the end product, making occasional deviations unavoidable.

I was asking because I'd previously bought a bag that was so underroasted that the coffee I brewed with it tasted like alfalfa. I threw the beans away. But even if what I was told were true why did they put that coffee into bags and sell it? I didn't buy any of their beans for a long time after that. But this has happened to me elsewhere and I've wondered if home roasting might be an answer to this.
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