Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Coffee: Questions and Answers
Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
Craft Roasted Coffee
Some days you make the coffee. Other days the coffee makes you.
bit.ly/craftroasting-ks
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > Warm, humid...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 3 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 703
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Tue Aug 6, 2013, 5:19pm
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

CMIN Said:

I've read that thread, completely different from myself and others. Their not taking out, defrosting, then placing back later on and refreezing the beans and repeating that process over and over. Their using small batches at a time for a dose, i.e. just as an example a bag/jar of 16g and use that, and so on and so on, at least from what I read their not doing say... if I were to take my pint sized jars filled, and take out, scoop out 16g, then place back in the freezer, and then if I want another shot or more through the day doing that same process, their not doing that. Their taking small frozen batches at a time and just grinding frozen beans that were already done to be used like that in batches themselves (like if i were to freeze some bananas, and take one out at a time to put in my protein shakes, I do them individually since their moisture turns them into a block if all stuck in a freezer bag).

Think your confusing what were saying lol

Posted August 6, 2013 link

Could be, I do get confused frequently.
But to me it sounds like these guys are returning coffee to the freezer.

Here are quotes from that thread:

"Terroir suggested I try just freezing the entire bag and just removing what I need each time"
"I dose and put back into the freezer."
"every morning I open the bag, get my 21-25 grams, close the bag and put it back in the freezer."
"I'll age in the bag then freeze, pulling out beans as necessary."

And from another thread on H-B where Abe Carmeli describes his technique:

"I freeze in large mason jars and open the jar for each shot."
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
dana_leighton
Moderator
dana_leighton
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 1,944
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Relax; Caferina...
Grinder: Macap MXK; Baratza Vario-W;...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Technivorm; CCD; Melitta
Roaster: Poppery I w/PID controller
Posted Tue Aug 6, 2013, 11:35pm
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

Thanks for digging these up John. It goes against what I considered gospel/conventional wisdom that to allow cold beans to be exposed to air risks condensation and the oxidation of the coffee oils. It may be time to reconsider that supposition.

 
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Buckley
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Internet
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Aug 7, 2013, 5:24am
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

CMIN Said:

Fridge is pry about the worst place to store coffee.

Posted August 5, 2013 link

jpender Said:

Why?

Posted August 5, 2013 link

The temperature of a refrigerator is known as the 'kill zone' for the flavors of stone fruit (peaches, etc.) and tomatoes and for staling bread faster than at room temperature - I assume this is why the flavor of roasted beans is diminished by refrigeration, as well.  The problem is a temperature-sensitive chemical (enzymatic?) reaction that is well-written about, that I should have read thoroughly and know (I am a former baker), which, for reasons of time and laziness, I have not researched.  Also, food chemists do not completely understand it, either.  For bread, tomatoes and fruit, it appears to be purely the chemical reaction, not a moisture reaction (bread dries out more quickly in the refrigerator).  With respect to roasted beans, I suspect that it is mostly the chemical reaction (starch retrogradation) that destroys the roast flavor, but I am not taking issue with the fact that moisture is more abundant and accelerates the oxidizing process, as well.  The complexity of the chemical reaction is illustrated by the fact that temperatures colder than those of a refrigerator (just above freezing, or freezing in the cases of bread and roasts) do not seem to adversely affect the flavors of tomatoes, bread and stone fruit, and cool but not refrigerated temperatures also are good conditions to store them.

Buckley
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Aug 7, 2013, 8:36am
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

dana_leighton Said:

Thanks for digging these up John. It goes against what I considered gospel/conventional wisdom that to allow cold beans to be exposed to air risks condensation and the oxidation of the coffee oils. It may be time to reconsider that supposition.

Posted August 6, 2013 link

You may be right but, for now, I am solidly in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp. I still freeze in small lots and open only after getting to room temp. It may be extra work that I need not do but it makes me more comfortable by not even allowing for the possibility of condensation getting on the beans YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 703
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Wed Aug 7, 2013, 11:40am
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

Buckley Said:

The temperature of a refrigerator is known as the 'kill zone' for the flavors of stone fruit (peaches, etc.) and tomatoes and for staling bread faster than at room temperature - I assume this is why the flavor of roasted beans is diminished by refrigeration, as well.

Posted August 7, 2013 link

I think you're stretching to fit an analogy to a preconceived notion.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 703
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Wed Aug 7, 2013, 11:55am
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

dana_leighton Said:

Thanks for digging these up John. It goes against what I considered gospel/conventional wisdom that to allow cold beans to be exposed to air risks condensation and the oxidation of the coffee oils. It may be time to reconsider that supposition.

Posted August 6, 2013 link

I'm pretty new to coffee in a sense. Even though I've been drinking it for many years it has only been in the last two that I've been paying attention. And one thing that surprises is me is how much myth and superstition there is in coffee. This is changing right before our eyes which I find exciting.

I usually buy just enough freshly roasted coffee to last about a week. When I do freeze coffee I take it out later all at once, just as CMIN and calblacksmith apparently do. Once out it starts to degrade at the normal rate. But what if that degradation can be avoided or at least slowed down simply by leaving all my coffee in the freezer all the time? That's what at least one person on H-B posted was their experience. It may be that details of the container, how the coffee is removed, and the temperature and humidity affect how well this works, if it works.

I don't see any reason to put coffee in the refrigerator as long as there's space in the freezer. I was just curious whether refrigerator temperature is really deleterious to coffee or if that is just a myth.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,377
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Aug 7, 2013, 12:06pm
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

I tried frozen bean grinding before, didn't really see a difference, except they popcorn like mofo. I single dose and the Preciso works awesome for that, except with frozen beans lol. Maybe the big flat/conical grinders don't have that issue really?

Like Cal said I just rather stick with what I do and works. I live in South FL and obviously have a great a/c setup lol, but rather not risk frozen beans in and out in and out even though it may work. Maybe certain areas with humidity are effected more? Like how grinders can be, like you have HG-One owners that have no clumping or static etc just grind and tamp, and others b/c of the weather/humid/altitude etc where they live where they have to spritz beans with water, shake, wdt, tamp.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CoffeeLoversMag
Senior Member
CoffeeLoversMag
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 218
Location: Seattle
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Aug 12, 2013, 6:19am
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

Coffee bean is good to have short storage times if the place where you stored it has low humidity because the low level humidity sucks moisture. But if a bean is stored in too humid environment, it gains moisture and the appearance of the bean would be darker. So, warm temperature is better for coffee bean when you refrigerate it.

 
Did you know...? Dark roast coffees actually have less caffeine than lighter roasts due to the fact that the process of roasting burns off caffeine.
www.coffeeloversmag.com/theMagazine
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Aug 12, 2013, 6:50am
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

As I said, I freeze in lots that last about 3 days, or about a 3/4 full quart zip top freezer bag.
The bags are sealed, there is no gain or loss of moisture to the bean. Whatever was in the bean before it was frozen is in the bean with no loss or gain after the bag has been allowed to reach room temp while still sealed, after being frozen.

I read the above post several times and I don't understand what he intended to say, sorry :/ Could you please rephrase it?

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 703
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Wed Aug 14, 2013, 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Warm, humid environment vs. Refrigeration
 

Condensation is bound to occur if you open a container of beans straight out of the freezer. It's interesting that some people do this and claim it works okay. Maybe there isn't enough condensation to matter? Maybe in a jar only the top layer of beans is exposed to condensation?

I weighed out 10g of beans, sealed them in a ziplock and put them in the freezer. Later I took them out, placed them on an open weighing tray, and weighed them at short intervals. They appeared to gain 0.18% weight all within the first two minutes and then nothing after that. A control sample (left at room temperature) appeared to gain 0.05%, just barely above the precision of the scale. This was in a room at 70F and about 65% relative humidity.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 3 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > Warm, humid...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.339422225952)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+