Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 1:25pm Subject: Fixing a thermoprobe & Erratic PID behavior
Hi all, so I've had some trouble with my expobar brewtus iv. The gicar PID has been bouncing from some pretty high temps, and it's resulted in the reset thermostat turning the boiler off. I've switched it back on but I'm still having issues. Mainly the group is spitting out steam and the brew boiler is over heating the water. I think its The thermoprobe, does anyone know how I can fix this? I've reset the PID I've checked all the connections. I can't figure it out. It almost seems that the brew boiler isn't filling with water, and what is In there is over heating.
Anthony C
Currently pulling: -espresso- Social Coffee Co. (Ontario, Canada): -Peoples Liberation -Peoples Daily -El Socorro Palo Blanco Espresso
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 924 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 2:20pm Subject: Re: Erratic PID behaviour
I would recommend initially buying a new thermoprobe...and then fitting this to see if it still happens. I am assuming this won't be too expensive. You then have a spare and can at least eliminate the probe from your investigations.
I have not seen a Brewtus since the version 2. So if your machine has a PID control of the steam boiler as well as the brew boiler, you could swap the thermal probes around and see if you still get a problem on the brew boiler. This would be a cheap way of eliminating the probe.
The other possibility of course is that the brew boiler is loosing water and the probe housing is not in the brew water. This could happen if you have a leak in the brew path....of course with that amount of water leaking, the group would go cold as the thermosyphon would stall.
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 8:02pm Subject: Re: Erratic PID behaviour
I removed the thermoprobe and found it was covered in what appeared to be scale. I cleaned and replaced it, but I am now just getting an A1 error. The probe was just a metal rod inside of the nut. Should this be coated in silicone or something? I read that it not supposed to be in direct contact with the water.
Anthony C
Currently pulling: -espresso- Social Coffee Co. (Ontario, Canada): -Peoples Liberation -Peoples Daily -El Socorro Palo Blanco Espresso
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 924 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Mar 2, 2013, 8:10pm Subject: Re: Erratic PID behaviour
acasabia Said:
I removed the thermoprobe and found it was covered in what appeared to be scale. I cleaned and replaced it, but I am now just getting an A1 error. The probe was just a metal rod inside of the nut. Should this be coated in silicone or something? I read that it not supposed to be in direct contact with the water.
A1 error is a bad connection, the probe sits inside a thermowell (the metal rod is hollow). I assumed you used boiler safe water, if you are using hard water it could well be the problem. Hard water causes more than 95% of coffee machine faults that are not due to wear and tear.
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 9:59am Subject: Re: Erratic PID behaviour
DavecUK Said:
A1 error is a bad connection, the probe sits inside a thermowell (the metal rod is hollow). I assumed you used boiler safe water, if you are using hard water it could well be the problem. Hard water causes more than 95% of coffee machine faults that are not due to wear and tear.
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 10:25am Subject: Re: Erratic PID behaviour
Here is an image of the thermoprobe in its nut, as you can see I had some difficulty getting it out and I did clean off any scale that I could. Would anyone like to give me an anatomy lesson? If I am getting a bad connection A1 error, what can I do here to test it?
Anthony C
Currently pulling: -espresso- Social Coffee Co. (Ontario, Canada): -Peoples Liberation -Peoples Daily -El Socorro Palo Blanco Espresso
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,193 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 2:31pm Subject: Re: Erratic PID behaviour
That looks like a sensor pushed into a sealed probe. The sensor could be a thermistor, doubtful, or more like RTD (resistance temperature detector) or a thermpcoule, 2 dissimilar metal wires that generate a small voltage variable by temperature. Tests are different for each.
I made a thermofilter and pushed a sensor into a copper tube to keep it dry and the tube in flow. Yours is a bit more sophisticated version of the probe part of this.
I could not readily find what sensor was in your probe. About the only thing that I can think of that would be an easy fix is a broken wire, and that not on a thermocouple. The wire on a RTD and thermistor is solderable. If the sensor pulled out with the grey cap, then perhaps it is replaceable if you can identify. Likely just buy a new unit.
So, after a week of waiting, Im still stuck. I guess there are no managers at WLL who can sign off on a warrantee replacement?
Any ideas on how I can fix an old probe? perhaps making something temporary until I can get the new one. How would I identify this part if I wanted to order it elsewhere?
I don't wan't to bash WLL, they have always been very helpful in the past. But the fact that I have called three times now and am still waiting for even a tracking number is a bit aggravating.
EDITS
WLL contacted me today to let me know it has shipped... finally. Im surprised to find that the probe would typically cost $75, is this typical?
Anthony C
Currently pulling: -espresso- Social Coffee Co. (Ontario, Canada): -Peoples Liberation -Peoples Daily -El Socorro Palo Blanco Espresso
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