Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Coffee: Questions and Answers
How does Coffee bean density affect quality/taste?
Donate to Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids works with farming communities around the world, improving lives. Donate today.
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > How does Coffee...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
coffee_thailand
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Alexandria
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 6:05am
Subject: How does Coffee bean density affect quality/taste?
 

I have been trying 2 different kinds of beans from different suppliers. I grind with a rocky rancilio and i brew with an expobar control.

I grind both kinds of beans on the same grind setting, and i use the same amount of ground coffee in the portafilter. However, one bean takes almost twice as long to brew as the other.

So, one the same grind setting, one coffee seems to be much for finely ground than the other.

If i adjust the grind for each coffee to get the right brew time (about 25 seconds) then the more finely ground coffee seems to have better crema, but the less finely ground coffee, so to speak, has better taste, to me.

So, anyway, obviously different coffee beans results in different density/permeability of the ground coffee.

My question is: In general, is the higher density higher quality? Or lower quality? Or the density does not matter to quality at all?

In the end of course, all that matters is taste, but i am curious why the density is quite different between beans from different suppliers and what the implications are.

Thanks for your feedback,

Mike
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,023
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 6:16am
Subject: Re: How does Coffee bean density affect quality/taste?
 

Welcome to CoffeeGeek!

Your observations are quite common: different beans require different grinder settings in order to achieve optimal extraction. The amount of crema yielded by proper extraction can vary, depending on the type, blend and age of beans and doesn't necessarily affect taste.

I'm not quite sure, though, what you mean by densitiy. Are you refering to the body (i.e. viscosity) of the espresso?

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
coffee_thailand
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Alexandria
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 6:27am
Subject: Re: How does Coffee bean density affect quality/taste?
 

Hi Nobby, thanks for the welcome and and the reply.

Well, i am just guessing about the denisty. I mean of the beans. How come the extraction time is quite different for 2 different beans, when the grind is the same? I guess density, roast and other things affect the extract, and i have to find the right grind setting for each type of coffee bean i brew. Fair enough.

I guess my real question is what does the extraction time say about the bean? If 1st bean is perfect at grind setting of 5, but 2nd bean needs to be ground coarser at 15 or 20 to get the same extraction time, what does that say about the beans, in terms of quality, if anything?

In the above example, i prefer the taste of 1st bean, but 2nd bean seems to have richer crema. Also, 1st bean when ground is very dark. 2nd bean is much ligher in color when ground. before ground, they are more or less the same. The 2nd bean also seems more shiny/oily.

I live here in Thailand. 1st bean is from Lanna Cafe, the 2nd bean is from Bon Cafe.

Thanks, Mike
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 6:41am
Subject: Re: How does Coffee bean density affect quality/taste?
 

The difference means that you have two different blends and you like the flavor of one more than the other, nothing more.

The blend with more crema may have more Robusta beans in it, they tend to form more crema. The darker the roast the more the blend tastes like the roast and less like the beans the roasted lot is made from. The majority here feel that by the time oil starts to show on freshly roasted beans, the roast is past allowing you the ability to really taste the difference of the beans or blend and is well down the road to charcoal.

If you like that flavor, then continue to buy and enjoy it. You are the only one who you need to work to impress and what you like is what you like, there is no right and wrong, just what you like to taste.

The grind of the beans change day to day and sometimes even hour to hour so the fact that you have to make a fairly large change to the grinder for a roasted blend from two different vendors has nothing to say about the quality of either, just that they are different.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,023
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 6:45am
Subject: Re: How does Coffee bean density affect quality/taste?
 

Like Wayne said, the required grinder setting might mean nothing as far as the quality of different coffee beans is concerned. However, as I said aging does affect that parameter as well in a way that older beans have to be ground finer for proper extraction, so that it might mean that the beans are not particularly fresh. Older beans (especially arabica) produce less crema as well, by the way. When were those beans roasted?

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
coffee_thailand
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Location: Alexandria
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 7:52am
Subject: Re: How does Coffee bean density affect quality/taste?
 

Great, thanks for all the feedback. I do like the taste of the Lanna Cafe beans better. The are almost twice the price, but I guess you get what you pay for.  Not sure of the roast date, i don't think it's on the bag. The writing is all in Thai. My wife, who is Thai, says there's nothing about the roasting date.

Now i want a cup, but it's 10:00 PM here, so guess i better wait till morning...

Thanks again, Mike
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JKalpin
Senior Member
JKalpin
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 791
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Aerobie Aeropress
Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama 5-Cup
Drip: Krups Moka Brew, BraZen
Roaster: Freshroast+8, Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 1:04pm
Subject: Re: How does Coffee bean density affect quality/taste?
 

In roasting coffee, I noticed that the beans increase in size, so my normal 10 oz roast almost doubles in volume.

While I am getting more volume I am getting less weight.  I weigh the beans before and after.  Whatever the volume is, the weight, after roasting varies from 80% to 85% of the original greens.  So I lose from 15 to 20% (by weight) in the roasting process.

Both things considered, the density (by volume) definitely changes, from one variety to another.  So you are right.

How that factors into making espresso, where you tamp the coffee into the portafilter:  That's anyone's guess.

OTOH, if you weigh each coffee charge into the grinder, I think all density 'variations' are removed.  You get the same mass of coffee every time.  

If, after that, you are finding quality/taste variations, cup to cup, in the SAME bag of coffee, you might start looking for excessive fines in your ground coffee.

 
Jerry
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > How does Coffee...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.22677898407)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+