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Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > Baratza Preciso...  
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theCoffeeScientist
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 20
Location: boulder,CO
Expertise: Professional

Grinder: OE Lido#144, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Yama 5c
Drip: Hario V60, BeeHouse, Chemex,...
Roaster: Quest M3 fully profiled
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 9:46pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Sorry about the Hario size error, must of been looking at Sam's equipment list.

30g dose with 400g water?!? That's an extremely high coffee/water ratio, 1:13.3

With that ratio you should be getting 1 1/2 cups, more like 12oz instead of 9oz, assuming you're using a true US cup as opposed to a coffee brewer manufacturers 'cup' AND assuming a 2:1 water loss ratio,  which is fairly typical for me and a 30g dose is my standard. I can't imagine where that 80g of water/brew is going.

What I'd recommend is starting at a 1:17 coffee/water ratio (a pretty standard recommendation) and finding the grind that fits the flavor profile you like. I personally use a 1:16.5 ratio for brewing and have moved my grind to 22A on the Preciso. Of course, I'm sure there is a decent variance between Precisos.  On the other hand, my buddy, roastmaster at Ozo out here, uses a 20 grind on the regular Virtuoso for a 20g dose, about what I'd use if I used the same dose weight. Their shop uses a similar technique to me but stir a bit less and grind a bit more fine (they use a Mahlkonig Guat. Lab grinder).

It's funny. Right before I got really serious about coffee I got some new brewers and was trying to figure out a precise coffee water ratio. I was really tired of the 'use 1-2 heaping tablespoons per cup of water' bulls$&t. That's when I found Scott Rao's book 'Everything but Espresso' and my serious love of coffee became an obsession. Kind of where you seem to be now.

Don't know what to say about the lack of a bloom though. Honestly, maybe it's the East Coast in me as I grew up in Phili, I seriously question roast dates of companies that are not local and verifiable. When I buy coffee I get it directly from the roaster the day it was roasted. I'll separate a lb into two mason jars and put one in the freezer until I'm almost out of the first jar. When I open the unfrozen jar I have to be careful as I've had beans blast out like the old snake in a can and they will degas noticeably for the next four days. I'd recommend buying from a local roaster if at all possible and getting them the day they are roasted. Otherwise, I'd do a direct mail order from a company that will package and ship on the roast day and have it to you within two days. Novo Coffee in Denver is great for that and may be my favorite roaster currently. I had them send me some when I was in Phili with my dad back in June. Herb and his son Jake own and run it while their other son owns 90+ that had the amazing Ethiopian Nekisse Cafe Grumpy in NYC was selling for $12 a cup.

I go through about a lb a week, just regular consumption, but I'd be ok with drinking it within 3 weeks of its roast. After that I feel it has lost too much of its flavors.

 
Cheers,
dan

-the science of coffee-
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Sam21
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Northwest, CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso, LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Siphon, Aeropress, CCD
Drip: Kalita Wave, Beehouse,...
Roaster: Hottop KN-8828B-2K
Posted Thu Jul 12, 2012, 4:18am
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Kuma is a great roaster and does $5 flat rate shipping from the west coast. Takes 2-3 days to arrive and is shipped right after roasting.

The stirring piece to the V60 is very interesting. I recently adopted a similar agitation regiment with my clever as I use on my siphon. If measured in some way to keep it constant, it seem to be a great way to properly extract. With my size 1 V60, I typically make no more than 10oz. If making more than that, I am using my Woodneck or Chemex/Kone.

Obviously the small V60 makes it tough to add in agitation at such a small size, but the whole idea for this brewer in general is very interesting!
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derekfulmer
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 2:48pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

The past 2 days I've been using 30g of Coffee to roughly 480g of water and I am getting just about 2 solid mugs of coffee.  However, it still tastes a little weak to me, I'm not getting a bloom, and when I do my pre-infusion pour, the water goes right through the grounds.  From everything I have read, the water isn't supposed to flow right through during your pre-infusion/bloom pour.  Am I right or wrong on that aspect?
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Sam21
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Northwest, CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso, LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Siphon, Aeropress, CCD
Drip: Kalita Wave, Beehouse,...
Roaster: Hottop KN-8828B-2K
Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 3:27pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

How old is your coffee? Are you grinding fresh? I find that stale coffee will behave very different to fresh coffee. Besides the well known lack of bloom, stale coffee also impacts the flow of water through the grounds much differently than fresh coffee. I don't know why, but maybe It has to do with the degassing/blooming of the fresh coffee taking place in the first part of brewin.
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derekfulmer
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 3:29pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Sam21 Said:

How old is your coffee? Are you grinding fresh? I find that stale coffee will behave very different to fresh coffee. Besides the well known lack of bloom, stale coffee also impacts the flow of water through the grounds much differently than fresh coffee. I don't know why, but maybe It has to do with the degassing/blooming of the fresh coffee taking place in the first part of brewin.

Posted July 13, 2012 link

The current bag I have said it was roasted on July 2nd.  The next bag I buy I'm going to do my best to get it the day of or the day after roasting from another local roaster. I've been switching between Intelligentsia and Metropolis for the past month.
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Sam21
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Northwest, CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso, LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Siphon, Aeropress, CCD
Drip: Kalita Wave, Beehouse,...
Roaster: Hottop KN-8828B-2K
Posted Fri Jul 13, 2012, 3:40pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

That seems reasonably fresh. Not ideal, but should still taste good. How much are you pre-infusing?
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derekfulmer
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Jul 14, 2012, 5:54am
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Sam21 Said:

That seems reasonably fresh. Not ideal, but should still taste good. How much are you pre-infusing?

Posted July 13, 2012 link

Using roughly 60g of H2O for pre-infusion.

Having read that my grind should be the same size as sea salt, or coarse sugar (if there is such a thing), 23F on my preciso seems to be much too coarse.  I initially though that 23F on one grinder is the same as it is on mine.  I'm starting to wonder if all preciso's are not created equal?
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derekfulmer
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Jul 14, 2012, 6:00am
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Here's a picture of my spent grounds.  This was from a few days ago, but it looks like I have a "flat spent bed"?

How do the grounds look in size? Too coarse?


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8003/7567657570_138672851e.jpg
Photo Jul 12, 11 46 36 AM by Derek Fulmer, on Flickr
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Sam21
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 409
Location: Northwest, CT
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso, LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Siphon, Aeropress, CCD
Drip: Kalita Wave, Beehouse,...
Roaster: Hottop KN-8828B-2K
Posted Sat Jul 14, 2012, 6:02am
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Here's a picture of my spent grounds.  This was from a few days ago, but it looks like I have a "flat spent bed"?

How do the grounds look in size? Too coarse?


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8003/7567657570_138672851e.jpg
Photo Jul 12, 11 46 36 AM by Derek Fulmer, on Flickr

It is hard to tell just from the picture and the spent grounds, but have you tried going finer? If the coffee tastes weak or has under-developed sweetness, try grinding at 20-21 and compare. Keep every other variable exactly the same though.
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derekfulmer
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Jul 14, 2012, 6:13am
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Sam21 Said:

It is hard to tell just from the picture and the spent grounds, but have you tried going finer? If the coffee tastes weak or has under-developed sweetness, try grinding at 20-21 and compare. Keep every other variable exactly the same though.

Posted July 14, 2012 link

Should I focus more on the Macro or Micro settings when going finer?

This morning I carelessly used too much water and my coffee was really weak, bland, watery.
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