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andys
Senior Member
andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 856
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Tue Jun 5, 2012, 5:42pm
Subject: Re: Coffee Extraction Discussion, Questions for the membership:
 

jpender Said:

According to Illy the total solids in espresso are typically 90% soluble. So a target soluble extraction of 18-21% would imply a solids yield of about 20-23%. Does that mean further testing showed that the following line from that Home-Barista post turned out to be not quite true?

Posted June 5, 2012 link

The proportion of soluble to insoluble solids in espresso may vary a lot. I would accept Illy's figure as an average of Italian espresso prepared using typical Italian baskets manufactured with indifferent quality control.  (One of the design goals for VST filter baskets was keeping the insoluble solids around 4-5% or less of the total solids).

Plug for VST baskets aside, if I get espresso soluble extraction yields above ~20.5%, the shots often develop a bitter tinge. My best shots are usually around 18.5% - 19.5% solubles yield. Every once in a while a 17% shot will taste really good and intriguing -- don't ask me why!

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
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Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 5:56am
Subject: .
 

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andys
Senior Member
andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 856
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Wed Jun 6, 2012, 7:33pm
Subject: Re: Coffee Extraction Discussion, Questions for the membership:
 

Netphilosopher Said:

Aren't your strengths in the 9%+ range?  (High EBR)

Do you ever dilute (Americano-ize) your coffee to more normal strengths?  

Posted June 6, 2012 link

My espresso strength is generally 10.5%-12%, EBR generally 55%-65%.

 
-AndyS
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Thu Jun 7, 2012, 4:29am
Subject: .
 

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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 856
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Thu Jun 7, 2012, 6:56pm
Subject: Re: Coffee Extraction Discussion, Questions for the membership:
 

Netphilosopher Said:

 If I work a brew ratio around 18% with a pourover, and produce stuff that's 4.9% strength, I find that I tend to prefer this over same brew ratio at 5.30-5.35% - backcalculated extractions are ~19% for the former, ~>20% for the latter.  When I start pushing strengths with this brew ratio approaching 5.5%, I get what you're finding - a bitter tinge and some increased astringency.  

Posted June 6, 2012 link

Just wondering: why use such high brew ratios?

 
-AndyS
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2012, 7:16am
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 4:47am
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jpender
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jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
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Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
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Drip: Aeropress
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:07am
Subject: Re: Coffee Extraction Discussion, Questions for the membership:
 

Netphilosopher Said:

I was just thinking that if I did that and the strength didn't double, it would indicate interference or saturation due to the concentration of the already-brewed coffee TDS in the following extraction.

Posted June 14, 2012 link

Well we know coffee can be a lot stronger than 3% so you're not reaching saturation. But a high enough soluble concentration could affect extraction. At some level it might be possible to drive solubles INTO the grounds. Didn't Schulman postulate that for the initial wetting of espresso pucks?
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jpender
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jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
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Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:09am
Subject: Re: Coffee Extraction Discussion, Questions for the membership:
 

All else being equal (coffee, grind, temperature), brew ratio is negatively correlated with extraction yield for any brewing method.

True or false?
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2012, 1:17pm
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