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Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > Baratza Preciso...  
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j123
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 56
Location: US
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Jun 25, 2012, 5:35pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

very helpful. Thank you.
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theCoffeeScientist
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Joined: 16 Jun 2012
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Location: boulder,CO
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Grinder: OE Lido#144, Baratza...
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Roaster: Quest M3 fully profiled
Posted Tue Jun 26, 2012, 6:57am
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Derek,

Sam is wrong in his assumption of what I mean by a flat spent bed. The spent bed is a basic but solid indicator of your extraction. I pour pretty slowly but definitely let the brewing mass rise fairly high for each pour and pour about 100g per pour, stirring the grounds on the top and sides into the water after each pour. Doing this, you can use the shape of the spent bed to tell you how well the coffee extracted into the brew. If it is basically flat, you are going to be in the 20% extraction range. The more convex the more the extraction, the more concave the less the extraction. Using the method Sam showed will negate this analysis as the coffee is never given a chance to rise high enough to give you an indication either way.

As far as the amount of water you use, i would say it is way too low for proper extraction. For 28g I'd highly recommend using 471g water (assuming a 2/1 water absorption ratio). Try starting with that and keep grinding more and more fine until you get that flat spent bed, actually going to a pretty convex bed too and decide for yourself what taste YOU prefer. I always shoot for a 19.75%ext and 1.33%tds FYI. Gotta go, more later. Very busy right now.

 
Cheers,
dan

-the science of coffee-
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theCoffeeScientist
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Joined: 16 Jun 2012
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Location: boulder,CO
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Grinder: OE Lido#144, Baratza...
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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2012, 9:25pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Derek,

You probably figured this out by now, but . . .

the more fine the grind the higher the extraction you'll get. A is the finest micro setting, K is the most coarse micro setting.

from what you've already said I assume you brew on a scale. I'd also recommend that you pick a coffee/water ratio, stick with it and adjust your grind to get the flavor profile that suits you.

I've been brewing a Burundi coffee roasted by Ozo Coffee that I actually grind at 22A. I use a 30g dose to 505.5g water. 60g water for 45sec bloom, stirring after pour so ALL grinds get saturated, then 4 separate pours of 100g each (slightly more each time so the brewing mass is higher each time) cleaning the walls and keeping the grounds from staying on top with the stirring after each pour.

As I said before, if you let the brewing mass rise high enough (maybe less than a half in ch from the top at last pour) you can use the shape of the spent bed as an excellent indicator of extraction.

sorry it's taken me so long to add anything. I've been working 70 hour weeks lately.

 
Cheers,
dan

-the science of coffee-
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Intrepid510
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 355
Location: California
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jul 10, 2012, 11:46am
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

The biggest thing, be consistent. Judging from your range on the amount of water and coffee that could be a strong indicator why you are coming up with varying results. Keep everything the same that way when you don't get the results you like you can change one thing to see if that makes your results better.

What V60 are you using the 01, 02 or 03?

The size of brew that you are doing in the 12 to 16 ounce range should be for a 02, in the other versions you should probably be going higher or lower in the brew amounts.

Are you using a pouring kettle? For the Hario V60 this is really needed to be able to get a proper extraction, this just allos you to easily keep the water at a steady level for the brew and precise if using a pulse method. The Bonavita kettle is very nice, and budget minded.

Grind size. Every grinder is a little different depending on where it's calibrated to. Basically you want table salt size grinds, the numbers are only for YOUR reference not ours.

 
Less water, more grounds.
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Sam21
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Joined: 20 Sep 2011
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Posted Tue Jul 10, 2012, 11:55am
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Intrepid510 Said:

The biggest thing, be consistent. Judging from your range on the amount of water and coffee that could be a strong indicator why you are coming up with varying results. Keep everything the same that way when you don't get the results you like you can change one thing to see if that makes your results better.

What V60 are you using the 01, 02 or 03?

The size of brew that you are doing in the 12 to 16 ounce range should be for a 02, in the other versions you should probably be going higher or lower in the brew amounts.

Are you using a pouring kettle? For the Hario V60 this is really needed to be able to get a proper extraction, this just allos you to easily keep the water at a steady level for the brew and precise if using a pulse method. The Bonavita kettle is very nice, and budget minded.

Grind size. Every grinder is a little different depending on where it's calibrated to. Basically you want table salt size grinds, the numbers are only for YOUR reference not ours.

Posted July 10, 2012 link

Regarding stirring with the V60: by stirring/cleaning the grounds after each pour, do you not worry about water exiting the walls of the filter? In a brewer like the Chemex, where the filter sits snug against the thinnest point of the neck, stirring seems a good method, but the V60's design makes me wonder. I am very curious to hear more about you method!

I started my V60 adventure with Terroir's method, because it was very simple and easy to accomplish with very little experience. I then moved to Barismo's method of a very slow pour in circles constantly moving inwards and outwards with the goal of a very low bed of coffee. For more than 240ml, they advocate a pour, pause, pour method with a drawdown of about 30 seconds.

I am very interested in the bed analysis. Out of curiosity, where do these ideas come from? I only ask, because I feel that I have heard of them before.

Many thanks,

Sam
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theCoffeeScientist
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Joined: 16 Jun 2012
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Grinder: OE Lido#144, Baratza...
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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 4:44pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Hey Sam,

Pretty sure your questions are directed to me although you quoted Intrepid.

I have no issues with less than optimal under saturated coffee getting through the filter. The stirring actually heightens the brewing process and I tend to grind SLIGHTLY more coarse than other V60 users due to that. The flat sides of the Chemex is the one/one of the thing/s I tend not to like about it. It seems to have a sweet spot for one weight of coffee. I will start brewing with the Chemex exclusively for a while so I can solidify and put into words my feelings about how one size (my 6 cup) brews different weights of ground coffee.

As Intrepid states, BE CONSISTENT!

And on that note, I have to disagree slightly with Intrepid about V60 sizes. They only have a maximum brewing limit. I have been brewing with an 03 V60 for over a year and the only reason I don't use it to brew less than 35g of ground coffee anymore is because the filters are more expensive than the 02 filters. The 01, 02 and 03 are all the same exact shape. The only difference is the length, not the actual angle or hole size. You can easily use an 02 filter in an 03 so you don't waste money. They all fit within any size dripper. I would probably recommend using the 03 if you're brewing with 30g or more though, with 35g in an 02 I get mm's from the top but it still comes out the same as in the 03. It comes down to a question of headroom. FWIW, I've brewed 65g of grounds in an 03 and gotten amazing results. But you have what you have and I'm guessing it's an 02, about 35g maxish.

As to kettles, I'm using a Chef's Choice SmartKettle (which I love, but will get the temp. programmable BonaVita when it is available as I find specific temp brewing more important than the most precise pour). Not the easiest kettle to pour slow and controlled with but not too hard until you get it dialed. But the Bona Vitas, like Intrepid said, have a GREAT price point for everything they offer.

The bed analysis came from 'Everything but Espresso' by Scott Rao, although from my experience I get the extraction I want from a flat bed, not a convex bed as he emphasizes (don't quote me on that though). It was reassuring to see my favorite coffee shop originally shooting for a convex bed and slowly adjusting to a flat bed like I believe is on point. I certainly do agree with Mr. Rao on a 19.75% extraction as an ideal, though after many different extraction tastings (merely interesting to note).

Hopefully I'll soon have a friend help me make a video on my V60 brewing method so I can share it with anyone interested.

 
Cheers,
dan

-the science of coffee-
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theCoffeeScientist
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Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 20
Location: boulder,CO
Expertise: Professional

Grinder: OE Lido#144, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Yama 5c
Drip: Hario V60, BeeHouse, Chemex,...
Roaster: Quest M3 fully profiled
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 4:54pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Oh, you have an 01. No offense, but I find that size silly for me.

One cup is just not enough when it's SO GOOD!!!

If you upgrade, get the 03 and buy 02 filters if you're regularly brewing 16oz (about 30g grounds) or less. I have both 02 & 03 size filters. The only issue, & it's nitpicking, is that it's harder to get the 02 filter out of an 03 due to it not sticking out past the dripper top.

 
Cheers,
dan

-the science of coffee-
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derekfulmer
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 7:52pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

theCoffeeScientist Said:

Oh, you have an 01. No offense, but I find that size silly for me.

One cup is just not enough when it's SO GOOD!!!

If you upgrade, get the 03 and buy 02 filters if you're regularly brewing 16oz (about 30g grounds) or less. I have both 02 & 03 size filters. The only issue, & it's nitpicking, is that it's harder to get the 02 filter out of an 03 due to it not sticking out past the dripper top.

Posted July 11, 2012 link

I have an 02.
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derekfulmer
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Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 7:59pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Lately I've been using about 30g of Coffee to 400~g of water with a 15-20/D-G grind settings.

However, I will start being more consistent with grind settings and the water to coffee ratio. I'll reread some of everyones posts to see what you are each using ratio-wise. Which may add to why I'm not getting more than 1 and 1/8th cup worth of coffee.  

May I also offer a new frustration? I may have hit on it in the initial post, but I'm not getting a bloom whatsoever. The current bag of beans I have are Intelligentisa's Honduras and they were roasted on July 2, 2012. Now, that's more than a week from roast date by now, but I bought them on Friday and keep them in an air tight OXO pop container.
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IMAWriter
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IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,841
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 8:15pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso and my V60.
 

Thanks for the vids Sam. I've seen all of them, as I'm a fairly new Hario V guy.
George Howell is such a terrific guy.

It is easy to have a pretty much "flat" bed with a SLOW/pulse pour technique, a term I wasn't familiar with till recently.
Interestingly, I've been pouring that way with my Chemex for years.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
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